11 replies to this topic

[Marcin Zgiernicki]

In the Databook chapter about Poland currently only UK, France and US are noted as allies. I'd like to suggest however that the Soviet Union should also be mentioned - and that since 1943. By the mid '43 the First "Kosciuszko's" Infantry Division (I suppose the name "Kosciuszko" is known somewhere in US? :) ) of the Polish People's Armed Forces (a rather rough translation of "Ludowe Wojsko Polskie") was fully formed and entered battle shortly after.Even as having such an "ally" as Soviet Union later turned out to be rather disastrous for the independence of my country it can't be denied that by the end of the war there were two polish armies operating on the eastern front and some of the units even took part in the battle for Berlin.BTW the First Division's first battle took place near the village Lenino (Byelarus) so the "areas of action" should also include USSR.MarcinP.S. One more note about areas of action of the polish armed forces - polish Independent Carpathian Brigade fought in North Africa (most noticeable was its part in the defence of Tobruk) and Polish 2nd Corps operated in Italy - it was us, Poles who finally captured Monte Cassino :woohoo:. They also liberated Ancona and took part in the battle for Bologna.So maybe you should consider adding North Africa and Italy to the list.Post edited by: mazgier, at: 2005/10/17 10:44

Post edited by: mazgier, at: 2005/10/17 10:46

[Bob Benge]

Hey Marcin,I love the info you gave me. If you don't mind I used excerpts of your post in the update of the capsule. I have updated the Polish Capsule with all of your info. It will be in the next update. Thanks! Here is what I have updated (additions are in red), I hope that you approve:Major Allies: United Kingdom, France, Soviet Union†, and U.S.ΨAreas of Combat/Occupation: Germany, North Africa, Italy, Poland, Soviet Union and France*"...of the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain. Many Poles also escaped to the Soviet Union. By mid 1943, the First "Kosciuszko's" Infantry Division of the Polish People's Armed Forces "Ludowe Wojsko Polskie" was fully formed and entered battle shortly after with the Soviets. By the end of the war, there were two Polish armies in Soviet service. Other Polish units of note serving with their allies were the Independent Carpathian Brigade which fought in North Africa, most noticeably taking part in the defense of Tobruk and the Polish 2nd Corps which operated in Italy capturing Monte Cassino, liberating Ancona and took part in the battle for Bologna.Ψ starting in 1941.† starting in 1943.

[Jonathan Coulter]

Excellent stuff guys!! Excellent! I would love to see more detailed historical information included in the databook(s), within reason of course. But a page a historical information I would say is within reason.Anyone with good additional information, post it !!

[Marcin Zgiernicki]

I'm REALLY glad that you found my information useful :laugh: .So here's a little bit more that you may consider too ;) : 1) About the '39 Polish Campaign (BTW here we call it "Poland's Defense War" not "campaign") - on 17th of September, following the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact the Soviet Union joined Germany in their attack against Polandand eventually occupied its eastern part (of course they called it "liberation" :angry:).So it is quite possible in MP to fight Poland vs. USSR battles using their respective '39 TO&Es.And perhaps this information should also be included in the Soviet Union's capsule.2) About "...Many Poles also escaped to the Soviet Union...."I'm afraid it should rather be "Many Poles were also deported or escaped to the Soviet Union..." The '39 "liberation" of eastern parts of Poland was followed by a mass deportations of Poles to Kazakhstan or even futher to the east of USSR (and I don't even try to start talking about things like the Katyn massacre...).When the formation of the first polish units begun in 1943, for many of the deported, joining the army was the only way to return home or at least to return to Poland.I don't mean all of this really need to be included in the "capsule" rather I'm writing it for your information.3) There were some more "Areas of Action" that saw polish armed forces during the war:- Norway - in 1940 polish Independent Podhale's Rifle Brigade (Podhale is a mountain region in southern Poland) took part in the battle for Narvik.- Holland an Germany - in addition to the Carpathian Bde and 2nd Corps there was also 1st Polish Armoured Division (under command of general Maczek - who led the "Black Brigade" in '39). The Division fought in France (they closed the "sack" around Germans in the battle for Falaise), Holland (they liberated Breda and many other cities - you can find many street names and memorials honouring Poles there) and finally in Germany (the Division's final action in the war was occupation of Wilhelmshaven).Marcin.

[Bob Benge]

Hmmm... There is some excellent info here. You actually have given me an idea. I am thinking about giving our international players a chance to amend/edit the current coutry capsules, keeping the original format, thus giving the capsules a more complete feel. I can give each participant a byline for their work. As you have taken an interest in this area, I'll give you first shot at the Polish capsule. The only stipulations I/ODGW would have would be to keep the capsules factual and non-confrotational (don't want to stir up any old wounds ;)). The final capsule would be subject to ODGW approval. Any comments Jon? If Jon agrees and you are interested, Marcin, let me know and I'll email the MS Word file to you, after you give me your email address of course, and let you go to it. :)

[Marcin Zgiernicki]

If Jon agrees then yes, definitely I'm interested :). I'll send you a PM with my e-mail details.And I promise I'll only stick to the facts...Marcin.

[Jonathan Coulter]

I agree ... now get to work !! :woohoo:

[Bob Benge]

Done! I sent him the file 30 minutes ago.:woohoo:

[Andrew B. Johnson]

Additionally, the Polish Armies were part of the destruction of the German 9th Army during the final push to Berlin after the USSR had crossed and established Bridgeheads at the Oder River. Unfortunately I am not sure of their tactical position with regrrds to the heaviest fighting for the higlands where so many Soviet and German casualties were sustained in the final days.

[Bob Benge]

Yep, abj, Marcin got that in the new capsule too. Thanks for the info! ;)

[Marcin Zgiernicki]

Received & replied :) Marcin

[Bob Benge]

Just an update Marcin. My wife, and editor, give it the once over and approved. I sent it to Jon for a final once over then I'll post it to the playtest area for the pre-masses. It will be put in the next revision of the databook. Thanks for a great job Marcin! :woohoo: