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Newbie Artillery question


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#1 Johannes Blunck

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Posted 26 October 2005 - 03:52 AM

First of all: Sorry - I am sure this topic has been discussed a thousand times in the old Forum, but that is down - so I have to post this question again.We had a game last weekend and we played with the artillery drop in for the first time. As you can imagine a few questions came up.There is this difference between HE OV and HE OV FP. The rules (page 8.1)say that if you want to use HE OV FP just use the HE OV value "plus 10".In the Data book i find a normal HE OV and a HE OV FP value as well, but the difference is not "10" as it should be according to the rules. Are the rules old and only the data in the data book valid or do I just misunderstand this part of the rulebook?The German artillery (15cm sFH 18) in our game hit a russian T-70 which had a top DV of "4". The HE OV of the German gun is "5". Although the German gun hit the russian tank directly it didn't destroy it. The tank was just suppressed. Could that historically be? First of all: the top armor of the T-70 seems very thick compared to medium German tanks and second: wouldn't a 15cm direct hit destroy the small tank automatically?Maybe somebody can help me.Johannes

#2 Bob Benge

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Posted 26 October 2005 - 06:07 AM

Hey Johannes,Please don't be sorry about asking a question. That's what we're here for. ;) Now about your questions;1.) In the Data book i find a normal HE OV and a HE OV FP value as well, but the difference is not "10" as it should be according to the rules. Are the rules old and only the data in the data book valid or do I just misunderstand this part of the rulebook? Actually, you caught what we are working on right now. We have changed the format of the databooks to remove the 10 difference that we used to use. When we added the HE OV and HE FP values in the Databooks we refined the values for HE and came up with the numbers that are in the latest edition of all the databooks. We added the HE FP numbers so players wouldn't have to remember the +10 rule too, especially since we found players, including us, had a tendency to forget this most of the time. Problem is, we haven't updated the Core Rules yet to reflect the change. For now, simply ignore the +10 rule in the Core Rules and use the values in the databook. Please also bear with us while we continue to revise the current edition of the Core Rules to reflect all of the changes we have made the past year and are in the process of making now. I would like to apologize for this effort taking so long and it will be a bit longer before it is complete. Our focus, see the News on the website front page had been misplaced and our refocusing is in progress. The wait, I hope will be worth it. :)2.) The German artillery (15cm sFH 18) in our game hit a russian T-70 which had a top DV of "4". The HE OV of the German gun is "5". Although the German gun hit the russian tank directly it didn't destroy it. The tank was just suppressed. Could that historically be? First of all: the top armor of the T-70 seems very thick compared to medium German tanks and second: wouldn't a 15cm direct hit destroy the small tank automatically?First, I think you hit on a typo that no one had caught yet. The T-70 should have a top armor of 1 not 4. This will be changed for the next revision. Now with your original numbers you had an 11 or less for a kill (55% chance). With the corrected numbers you have a 14 or less to kill (70% chance). The updated chance is on par of what it should be. Try to remember that that HE is not AP and that the HE OV is a generalized number to reflect the penetration and concussive effects of an standard HE round. The new numbers also reflect playability issues that showed up during playtesting when the original numbers were producing too lethal effects, according to all the previous playtesting. Thus, the numbers reflect a more balanced result. So to answer the second part of your question; not necessarily, but the corrected probability reflects a more accurate representation of the effects. If you would like a more technical and statistical answer, I am sure Gregory can give you a more detailed explaination of this. He is well versed in both statistics and HE fire from all of the reading he has done on the subjects. ;)

#3 Bob Benge

Bob Benge

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  • LocationLas Cruces, NM

Posted 26 October 2005 - 06:07 AM

Hey Johannes,Please don't be sorry about asking a question. That's what we're here for. ;) Now about your questions;1.) In the Data book i find a normal HE OV and a HE OV FP value as well, but the difference is not "10" as it should be according to the rules. Are the rules old and only the data in the data book valid or do I just misunderstand this part of the rulebook? Actually, you caught what we are working on right now. We have changed the format of the databooks to remove the 10 difference that we used to use. When we added the HE OV and HE FP values in the Databooks we refined the values for HE and came up with the numbers that are in the latest edition of all the databooks. We added the HE FP numbers so players wouldn't have to remember the +10 rule too, especially since we found players, including us, had a tendency to forget this most of the time. Problem is, we haven't updated the Core Rules yet to reflect the change. For now, simply ignore the +10 rule in the Core Rules and use the values in the databook. Please also bear with us while we continue to revise the current edition of the Core Rules to reflect all of the changes we have made the past year and are in the process of making now. I would like to apologize for this effort taking so long and it will be a bit longer before it is complete. Our focus, see the News on the website front page had been misplaced and our refocusing is in progress. The wait, I hope will be worth it. :)2.) The German artillery (15cm sFH 18) in our game hit a russian T-70 which had a top DV of "4". The HE OV of the German gun is "5". Although the German gun hit the russian tank directly it didn't destroy it. The tank was just suppressed. Could that historically be? First of all: the top armor of the T-70 seems very thick compared to medium German tanks and second: wouldn't a 15cm direct hit destroy the small tank automatically?First, I think you hit on a typo that no one had caught yet. The T-70 should have a top armor of 1 not 4. This will be changed for the next revision. Now with your original numbers you had an 11 or less for a kill (55% chance). With the corrected numbers you have a 14 or less to kill (70% chance). The updated chance is on par of what it should be. Try to remember that that HE is not AP and that the HE OV is a generalized number to reflect the penetration and concussive effects of an standard HE round. The new numbers also reflect playability issues that showed up during playtesting when the original numbers were producing too lethal effects, according to all the previous playtesting. Thus, the numbers reflect a more balanced result. So to answer the second part of your question; not necessarily, but the corrected probability reflects a more accurate representation of the effects. If you would like a more technical and statistical answer, I am sure Gregory can give you a more detailed explaination of this. He is well versed in both statistics and HE fire from all of the reading he has done on the subjects. ;)




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