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Order of Engagement


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#1 Christopher Cafiero

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 09:43 PM

Question on the Order of Engagement...

A Japanese sweep into the ETO has carriers and some battleships...it contacts a U.S. sweep also with carriers and battleships.

The carrier v carrier engagement is resolved first...so if the meet on forenoon watch they could, at most launch three rounds of airstrikes at each other.


I understand withdrawing, and if one fleet is 6 knots faster it can force a surface engagement after the airstrike, or there will be one if both sides want one, but;

Can various units of the sweep be "detached" to close for a surface action while the others loiter in the rear, for example could the U.S. player send one of his DesRon's to make a high speed run towards the Japanese fleet, and leave the slower battleships and vulnerable carriers behind?

If not, can the carriers and escorts "hang back" and launch as per the carriers v. surface action step?

An example of this order of engagement process would be helpful...Thanks!
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Christopher J. Cafiero

"I shall have no connection with any vessel that is not fast, for I intend to go in Harm's way..."

#2 Christopher Cafiero

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 11:08 PM

Also, if the carriers don't make contact A1, do they automatically proceed to surface v. surface? Or are the admirals given the option to close? I'm still not sure what happens with the carriers in such an instance...

Question on the Order of Engagement...

A Japanese sweep into the ETO has carriers and some battleships...it contacts a U.S. sweep also with carriers and battleships.

The carrier v carrier engagement is resolved first...so if the meet on forenoon watch they could, at most launch three rounds of airstrikes at each other.


I understand withdrawing, and if one fleet is 6 knots faster it can force a surface engagement after the airstrike, or there will be one if both sides want one, but;

Can various units of the sweep be "detached" to close for a surface action while the others loiter in the rear, for example could the U.S. player send one of his DesRon's to make a high speed run towards the Japanese fleet, and leave the slower battleships and vulnerable carriers behind?

If not, can the carriers and escorts "hang back" and launch as per the carriers v. surface action step?

An example of this order of engagement process would be helpful...Thanks!


Christopher J. Cafiero

"I shall have no connection with any vessel that is not fast, for I intend to go in Harm's way..."

#3 Darren Burnside

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 12:27 PM

Question on the Order of Engagement...

A Japanese sweep into the ETO has carriers and some battleships...it contacts a U.S. sweep also with carriers and battleships.

The carrier v carrier engagement is resolved first...so if the meet on forenoon watch they could, at most launch three rounds of airstrikes at each other.


I understand withdrawing, and if one fleet is 6 knots faster it can force a surface engagement after the airstrike, or there will be one if both sides want one, but;

Can various units of the sweep be "detached" to close for a surface action while the others loiter in the rear, for example could the U.S. player send one of his DesRon's to make a high speed run towards the Japanese fleet, and leave the slower battleships and vulnerable carriers behind?

If not, can the carriers and escorts "hang back" and launch as per the carriers v. surface action step?

An example of this order of engagement process would be helpful...Thanks!



OK, my opinion on this

If contact was made air/air the attacking waves for initial strike is done.

If it makes acquisition, with weather modifiers , the air strike versus CAP
and such are done, and the surviving planes on each side go home.

At that time, the TF commanders may announce at this time, that
they are withdrawing , adding a 3 modifier to the attackers
chances to acquire next time
so long as the attacking planes succeed in making the acquisition role
they are allowed to continue bombing the enemy Task Force, well til night fall anyhow

If the roll to acquire fails, they planes failed to find a target in time
and the targets got away

now as to breaking off faster Div's such as a DesRon to force a surface engagement
I do not see why not..
but it becomes a separate battle, if one side sends a DesRon to chase down
a withdrawing enemy TF .. they are the only ones to engage in the battle
when it becomes a surface engagement
though the off board carrier would be able , in day time, to send a wave
to add to the surface battle

Now as to the carrier and escort hanging back and launching as in carrier vrs surface
I do not see how that is possible
the withdrawing force still has a CAP up .. and it comes down to
if they can find / acquire the withdrawing target TF

Darren
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#4 gregoryk

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 09:35 PM

Typically a task force's screen would not leave its charges unescorted. Though given your example, you could make an argument for it. The carriers can definitely be positioned in the task group formation as "hanging back."

#5 gregoryk

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 10:36 PM

Also, if the carriers don't make contact A1, do they automatically proceed to surface v. surface? Or are the admirals given the option to close? I'm still not sure what happens with the carriers in such an instance...

If the carriers fail to make contact in A1, then the surface forces may go to surface to surface combat if both sides wish to, see Surface Engagement under A1. If no surface combat, proceed to the next level under Contact, at the top of the chart. In this case, the next item is Carrier versus Surface Engagement. If the sweeping player chooses to do so, go to A3 for possible acquisition. Continue through the Order of Engagement until a Contact occurs. The chance of a sweep vs sweep contact is listed under the CONTACT heading. It is first in order. In the ETO a surface fleet without carriers has a 1-3 chance on D12 to contact an opposing sweep. The side with carriers has a 1-5 chance of contacting, if the side with carriers contacts a surface fleet then go to A3 for air strike acquisition, using the chance as dictated by the current weather.

#6 Darren Burnside

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:20 PM

I agree that breaking off a DesRon or DDiv would be odd

My comment was that I did not see any reason it would not be allowed

I can think of a few situations where it might be done
one to send the DD's to chase down an loaded escaping convoy
another , if you needed to slow down an enemy TF to prevent if
from being able engage your own vulnerable vessels, such as
when the IJN was counter attacking the USN from retaking the Philippians

but those would be rare situations indeed

now as to the over all, part that the rules seem to conflict
it says at one point , that surface engagement "if" both sides want it
and another, that the aggressor can force a surface battle, if it is 6+ knots faster

I think it would be rule lawyering for a slow convoy to say
that they can get away.. as long as they do not want to engage.

#7 Christopher Cafiero

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 06:14 PM

Well, I'm interested in other opinions, but what I've decided to do is where battleship/carrier forces make contact, I note the die roll.

If the carrier planes fail to make contact on A1, and the contact roll was low enough for contact without carriers (example: a '4' on sweep v. sweep), then I set up a surface action where the two ships blunder into each other...


Any other thoughts?

It seems unreasonable that if the carriers miss there can never be a surface action, and equally unreasonable, working down the chart, that there is always a surface action.

In terms of forcing an action in a carrier duel, I plan to let players break off "surface action groups" of faster ships if they wish, risking catching a more powerful force with just light, fast units.
Christopher J. Cafiero

"I shall have no connection with any vessel that is not fast, for I intend to go in Harm's way..."




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