4 replies to this topic

[W. Clark]

Let me set the scenario first. It was a dark and stormy night with Force 7 winds and more squalls than I could count (untill I took my shoes off). Base visibility was 11,000 yards and went up to 16,000 on the first weather change check but the wind remained Force 7.

The Americans detected the Japanese on radar at 30,000 yards but could not see them until inside 8,000 yards. When can the Americans use starshell to illuminate?

1. When in range using the radar plot that gives bearing and a rough distance, or

2. Only when the firing ship has a visual acquisition.

My thought was the radar plot was enough, given that it gives a bearing and a rought distance and that is all you need to target with illumination. My basis for that declaration is that I've personally and accurately fired illumination from a 4.2" mortar at a target using just that information from a PPS 5 ground radar in the 70s (Army type here). I mean, ask any swab and they will tell you if the army can do it with a gun than USN can do it better, and I don't think that is a new opinion.

I could see having a DR for drift.

[mjkerner]

Old salts will assurdely weigh in here, but I'd say #1, for the reasons you mention, since the whole point of starshells is to illuminate the unseen.

[Cpt M]

Let me set the scenario first. It was a dark and stormy night with Force 7 winds and more squalls than I could count (untill I took my shoes off). Base visibility was 11,000 yards and went up to 16,000 on the first weather change check but the wind remained Force 7.

The Americans detected the Japanese on radar at 30,000 yards but could not see them until inside 8,000 yards. When can the Americans use starshell to illuminate?

1. When in range using the radar plot that gives bearing and a rough distance, or

2. Only when the firing ship has a visual acquisition.

My thought was the radar plot was enough, given that it gives a bearing and a rought distance and that is all you need to target with illumination. My basis for that declaration is that I've personally and accurately fired illumination from a 4.2" mortar at a target using just that information from a PPS 5 ground radar in the 70s (Army type here). I mean, ask any swab and they will tell you if the army can do it with a gun than USN can do it better, and I don't think that is a new opinion.

I could see having a DR for drift.

You're correct, starshells can be fired on a DETECTED contact (even if it was by radar) as limited by the visibility. You may know the IJN is out there at 30000yds, but your visibility cap (16000yds) is going to limit how far you can see. Your advantage here would be that you can start to manuvere freely and react to his movement. Once you're within 16000yds (or whatever the current visibility limt), then you can fire your starshells to illuminate. But you may not want to......

Now, keep in mind, once you fire those starshells, the other side (in this case, the IJN) would adjust its detection/acquistion roll to the LEFT 2 columns (making it easier to detect/acquire you. As if the IJN needs the help...). So pulling the trigger on those starshells may not be such a great idea (especially so as the starshell only illuminates 500yds of ocean. Nice to sight that one IJN DD, but the other 12 DDs plus the 4 CAs are still lurking about.... And now know who and where YOU are....). Starshells and searchlights are indeed a double edged sword....

I do have one question: When you rolled for the radar detection, did you take the 2 column shift to the RIGHT for squalls? Squalls seriously degraded radar performance (especially range). And as the table ends at 30000yds, you really shouldn't be able to detect him at that range with squalls in the area.

[W. Clark]

I did not know about the squall modifiier, but I think we had a window through the squalls between us and the Japanese when we rolled for initial radar contact. I will keep that one in mind if the weather god has us make contact in a gale again. Thanks for the reply and I'm glad that my instinct was finally in tune with the rules for a change.

As for letting those pesky sons of Nippon know where I am from my DDs firing starshells; I have my heavies follow about 11,000 yards behind the head of my destroyer columns and all four columns turn 90 degrees simulaneously upon radar contact, port columns to port and starboard to starboard. That maintains the 11,000 yard spacing. I never reveal my heavies until I have illuminated all contacts including dummies and know what I'm up against. I use smoke (weather permitting) to reduce my DDs exposure. in our last fight the IJN never saw 1 of my heavy divisions because I wasn't going to expose CAs & CLs to Nagoto class BB fire.

I have the lead and trailing DDs of each DD division continuosly making the recognition signal by blinker to their unengaged side (toward my heavies) and instruct my heavies to not fire between the lights to try and limit friendly fire. Its not perfect but it normally allows my heavies to shoot before they are shot at. And if I can get cute with the smoke, I may be able to isolate Japanese cans with my Brooklyns inside 12,000 yards.

Also the smoke forces the IJN to penetrate it if they want to engage my heavies and that brings them into my torpedo range. I know our fish don't go off like we would like, but we put 77 torps in the water last time, four hit and two went off against a CA and the Mutsu so I expect them to remain cautions.

[LordSunderland]

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