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A couple of oddities on Russian Vehicles


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#1 leefair

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:39 AM

T-50 (not that anyone makes a model of it anyway): Frontal DV of 2? My understanding was this tank was quite well protected for its size, having 37mm at 45 degrees on the upper hull and 37mm more in the turret. http://www.onwar.com...sr/data/t50.htm

SU-152: Looks like you are using the main gun data identical to the KV-2 M-10 howitzer... this vehicle was armed with the same gun as the later ISU-152, the ML-20 Gun-Howitzer, so shouldn't the "special" APHE round be the standard AP round (I'm not aware of any other type of AP ammo with this gun)?

#2 leefair

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:49 PM

SU-152: Looks like you are using the main gun data identical to the KV-2 M-10 howitzer... this vehicle was armed with the same gun as the later ISU-152, the ML-20 Gun-Howitzer, so shouldn't the "special" APHE round be the standard AP round (I'm not aware of any other type of AP ammo with this gun)?


OK, so reading the footnote, the APHE in SU-152 is "special" because it is in rare supply in late '43. Not sure where the AP value of 8 comes from... that would correspond with the 6" 1915 Naval Semi-AP round, which I guess the ML-20 could fire, but I'm fairly certain the SU-152 was never issued any of these. (Actually its questionable whether the KV-2 ever got any of these rounds either, and I'm sure KV-2 was never issued any BR-540 APHE "special" rounds, which I'm dubious the M-10 howitzer could even fire).

Of course, the big problem with these vehicles is that 152mm HE, while not having the requisite armor penetration to perforate tanks the old fashioned way, seemed to be quite effective at causing "mission kills" against the big cats (or at least they had that reputation).

#3 leefair

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:55 PM

Oh, and while we're on the subject of the Soviets, I take it the FP values for a SMG squad in the WW2 data book supercedes the thinking that went into the "generic infantry tables" in the main rules Chapter 11... the numbers are vastly different.

#4 Bob Benge

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:38 AM

Wow didn't catch this thread... Sorry for the delay in responding.
I agree I did drop the ball on the T-50. I am making the changes to the armor values which will posted soon.

As to the SU-152... it mounts the ML-20S gun and not the M-10S Naval gun you are referring to. Check http://www.onwar.com.../data/su152.htm According to your reference both the ISU-152 and SU-152 mounted the same gun.
So the real oddity is that they both don't have the exact same stats. WEll, the AP ratings are 13 as shown in http://en.wikipedia....un_M1937_(ML-20) So I will have to normalize these two vehciles to the same gun stats.

Finally, yes, the generic values for SMG are different from the new squad values.as they are derived from historical values. You are free to use either tables as you prefer.
~ Bob Benge ~
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#5 Bob Benge

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:51 AM

The Soviet Union and Finland Chapters have been updated to reflect the updated armor values for the T-50 and the updated Offensive values for the SU-152 and ISU 152. The updated download file has been posted to the site.

Thank you for the information! :)
~ Bob Benge ~
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Product Manager - Mein Panzer




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