48 replies to this topic

[CinC]

Greetings,A new scenario, "Cat & Mouse in the Kula Gulf," has been posted in the Scenarios & Campaigns area of the Registered Users Download Library.Enjoy!CinC

[Jim O'Neil]

The Link is Broken on the second download item.

[CinC]

Bravo6 wrote:

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The Link is Broken on the second download item.

Fixed — thanks!CinC

[CinC]

Latest postings:[ul][li]Five update pages were posted to the Update Files area of the Download Library.  Registered Users can download these and replace the pages in their loose-leaf editions, and have full pages available for the Anniversary Editions.[/li][li]Mike Baulch has kindly contributed three files to the Player Uploads area.  One is a Chart Overlay for 1cm=200yds that you can print and put on the Gunnery Chart.  Another is a Movement Gauge marked off in knots for 1cm=200yds.  And finally, he gave us torpedo markers, with a number of torpedoes "swimming" in the water equal to the spread size, and enough room to write down information.  Thanks, Mike![/li][li]This joins the previously posted files by Jeff Grossman to allow players to play the game in a smaller space.[/li][/ul]We certainly appreciate our 'mates lending a hand!Cheers,CinC

[CinC]

Greetings,As caught by Zippee, there were two errors in the original data for the Royal Netherlands Navy Supplement.  One was for HrMs Java and Sumatra, and the other was for USS Marblehead.  Both have been corrected in the updated charts file just uploaded to the RNN download folder.Thanks, Zippee!  Cheers,CinC

[CinC]

Just posted...Model Aircraft Basing, by Mal. Wright  Long-time General Quarters contributor Mal. Wright has generously given us an article detailing how to mount aircraft models for both form and function. No longer will your game table need ugly and awkward weighted stands for your flying miniatures.  Take a look here. Thanks, Mal, for lending a hand!Cheers,CinC

[Bob Benge]

Zippee and all,I have replaced the files part 1 and 2 with a single PDF document. This actually reduced the size of the file(s) from around 4.5mb per part to a single file of 1.4Mb. It also had the side effect of removing the password prompt when opening the file. A single, small "no hassle" file is now available. For those how have downloaded the 2 part version I heartily recommend you re-download the new single PDF version. My apology to those who downloaded the earlier 2 part file for not getting the files put up in this form when I uploaded them in the first place. :ohmy:

[William Owen]

I made a ruler for 1/2 cm per knot (half the standard GQ3 scale of 1 knot/cm/100yards). And I asked the following question on the GQ Yahoo list and got an answer.Q. The rules are a bit ambiguous in when the turn costs starts: it says turns 30 degrees or less are at no cost, but indicate no cost for turn 31-35 degrees (since the 2-knot cost starts at 36 degrees) so I suppose they should really say "35 degrees or less are at no cost", right?A. Yeah, they are vague. The way my group plays this is any turn of less than 2 ticks costs only 1kt. Any turns totalling 2 ticks and above cost 2kts per tick. Now this is just my interpretation; for an official explanation, I suggest you post your question on the ODGW GQ3 forum. My guess is that the 1st tick mark is 0 or 1 knot depending on whether or not you're playing with the answerer's house rule. What do you think? Bill Owen--o-O-o--william.owen@insightbb.comPS I uploaded what the 8.5" ruler will look like (if you agree I've cracked the code correctly) at:http://www.g-design.us/ships/My goal is to get Litko to make this with clear plastic and the type and markings "frosted". I could then get them to make a 17" long version with standard scale of 1 cm/knot or 100 yards.

[William Owen]

#1 One old question (at bottom) and I have another question RE movement:(and I got these answers on the GQ yahoo list but wanted to verify them as official)Re: 1.2.4 Movement by Divisions Posted by: "mrb2000"Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:01 pm (PST) > The rule above says that ships should be spaced at least 500 yards > apart and no more than 1000 yards.> I can find in "1.3.1 Collisions" that ships less than 500 yards > apart roll for collision.* > I assume that the "1" or "2" noted is when the die roll difference > is 1 or 2 respectively. Is that right?Correct.> I cannot find any penalty when ships are found over 1000 yards > apart. Is there one? Or is it a recommendation rather than a rule?There is no penalty. This is more a statement of general doctrine, than anything else. > Thanks for your clarification.> *This would either behoove the players to check each other or make > bases large enough to allow for this minimum 500 yards.Either would work. In most cases, a single player is going to control a division, so the station keeping is pretty much internal. M#2 I didn't get an answer on the turn gauge post of 1/22/07... any official answer on the less than 36 degree turns or if less than 30, what happens for 30-35 degree turns?Thanks!

[Coastal]

"#2 I didn't get an answer on the turn gauge post of 1/22/07... any official answer on the less than 36 degree turns or if less than 30, what happens for 30-35 degree turns?"Lonnie is out of the country on work until 2/3/07, so a definitive answer will have to wait until after then.

[Lonnie Gill]

Bill,Sorry for the delay; I just got back from Malaysia.  It's a loooong flight!Now, regarding ships altering course.  Every change of course consumes movement.  Section 1.2.3 on page 1-2 states that minor course changes (< 30°) can be made without the Ship Turn Indicator. That means you don't have to place the Indicator alongside the miniature to exactly measure a minor change in direction. The first tick mark was deliberately made more than 30° to avoid potential confusion on this point. Seems that has not been clear for all. So, a minor turn (< 30°) only costs 1 knot per 100 yards moved as there is little increase in lateral hull resistance for a small alteration in course.  A larger turn does add significant lateral resistance to overcome [see the example in the Now Hear This box on page 1-2] resulting in the cost shown on the Ship Turn Indicator.  Incidentally, the knot values for each tick mark were inadvertently left off the Ship Turn Indicator.  It's on the original, but something went awry in the translation between PC and Mac programs and the printer's software. We're working out this gremlin with the printer for future printings and will post the update in the download file for those who have already purchased the Third Edition. Your interpretation on the distance between ships in a division is correct. If less than 500 yds apart, they are subject to collision. Section 1.3.1 on page 1-4 indicates that Collision Die Rolls (CDRs) would be required.  A collision results if the CDRs are within 1 of each other.  Example: CDRs of 3 and 4 = collision; CDRs of 3 and 5 =  the bridge watches are able to take avoiding action in time.  There is no penalty for ships in a division being more than 1000 yds apart.  That is a recommendation reflecting normal maneuver doctrine.

[William Owen]

I got the answers. Re minimum distance was as I had it. Re turning, to summarize: 1. Anything 1-35 degrees would be at no extra cost; the 1st tick mark @18 degrees doesn't really need to be there.2. the 2nd tick mark (36-53 degrees) at a cost of 4 knots, 3rd tick (54-71 degrees) 6 knots, 4th (72-89 degrees) 8 knots etc.I guess the text should have said "less than 36 degrees" rather than "less than 30 degrees" because the indicator only measures in 18 degree increments. I'll update my artwork for the full-size Ship Turn Indicator.PS that's why you want to sit in the front of the plane, you get home sooner!

[Lonnie Gill]

Touche!

[William Owen]

I have detected 3 variants on the turn gauge so far:1. The official, which has no cost for turns under 36 degrees and starts with 4 knot  @36 degrees, then +2 knot cost per extra 18 degree tick mark.2. The slight variation which has a 1 knot cost @18-35 degrees, then as above.3. The bold variation which has 3 knot cost @ 30 degrees & +3 knots for every 30 degrees (i.e. 60 degrees 6 knots etc.) Which works out to roughly the same costs.I could make these variations too ...if I got'em right. This is your chance to straighten me out. So please respond if I'm mixed up.With approval of the chiefs of naval operations, I plan to upload this turn gauge actually in 3 scales (i.e. for each centimeter): 100 yards, 200 yards and 250 yards. The last is rather small but legible being only about 7" long. The largest (100 yards) is 17" long so it will take a special printer/paper (like 18" long) to get all on.

[Lonnie Gill]

Bill,I fear my earlier response reflects some jet lag which I need to clarify.  Each 18° tick mark on the Ship Turn Indicator is equivalent to a cost of 2 Kts as described in Section 1.2.3 on page 1-2.  Thus, the first tick costs 2 Kts, the second (36°) costs 4 Kts, etc. As a ship leans into a continued turn, lateral resistance increases, costing more "Kts" worth of movement energy. The more she turns, the greater the "cost" of this resistance.  In the interest of simplicity, this is reflected as a constant 2 Kts/18° on the Ship Turn Indicator.   By allowing minor turns of < 30° to be made without measuring with the Ship Turn Indicator, movement is made easier and captains can, in effect, execute these minor changes in course without extra cost at the normal one Kt/1oo yds due to minor lateral resistance as noted in my earlier reply.  For turns > 30°, the cumulative cost is simulated at a cost of 2 Kts/tick.  Thus, a two tick turn (36°) costs 4 Kts, etc.Not quite sure I understand what you mean by your variants. Seems your variant 2 is what I've described. I'm not sure what number 3, the bold variant, means either, but I agree the cumulative cost is similar. If I haven't answered your question, take another shot.  The intent is simply to simulate that significant course changes cost movement due to lateral resistance and hull slewing in the waves, in a quick, easy way without getting into the complex physics of movement in a liquid medium. I will look forward to your upload as the draft version of your movement gage that I have seen contains some nice, innovative aids to define movement in different situations.  Well Done!

[Jim O'Neil]

Lonnie,For the sake of consistency, would not it be better to limt free turns to 15º (18º if we want to be precise). Then the rule is anything less than the first tick mark is free ... each tick mark costs 2 knots.That's a pretty simple rule.

[William Owen]

I think my confusion comes from 3 things: never having played the game before, not having the 2-knot-costs on the Turn Gauge (even then, the photo in the rules that did have costs, only showed every other tick mark's cost starting with 4) and the apparently separate rule (suggestion?) about turns under 30 degrees.I thought that because it said you need not use Turn Indicator for turns under 30 degrees, that you ignored the first tick mark (2 knots, right?). And really I can't even see the point of the rule about not using the Turn Indicator, if you have to pay for turns 18-35 degrees (2 knots) then you need something to adjudicate that.So to make sure I've got it:Cost in Knots / For Turns (degrees)0 / 1-172 / 18-354 / 36-536 / 54-718 / 72-8910 / 90-107 etc. up to 20 / 180So, please let me know if I've finally got it.PS the mention about variants is just like what Bravo6 was suggesting, various people's ideas on how to modify the official game. My goal now is just get my play aid "stock" and I'm sure that gamers will make changes!Bravo6 seems to have the same interpretation as I do that there is a "free turn" (meaning no cost) implied by the under 30 degrees rule. If there IS an extra cost for 1-17 degree turns, then how much is that? 1 extra Knot? (Knowing that you always pay 1 knot per 100 yards regardless).

[Lonnie Gill]

Bill,Sorry for the delay.  I'm recovering from a computer virus.  Had to have the PC wiped and reloaded.  No fun!I think we're all saying pretty much the same thing.  There is no additional cost for turns under 30° (36° to be precise on the Ship Turn Indicator).  Just the normal one kt per 100 yds (1 cm in the most popular scale) which is easily measured with a tape measure or movement aid.   When a ship executes a larger change of course (> 30°) she incurs the cumulative cost of two kts per tick on the Ship Turn Indicator.This is a simplifed simulation of the complex dynamics involved when a ship turns which provides players some reasonable constraints while maneuvering their ships.

[gregoryk]

lonnie wrote:

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I think we're all saying pretty much the same thing.  There is no additional cost for turns under 30° (36° to be precise on the Ship Turn Indicator).  Just the normal one kt per 100 yds (1 cm in the most popular scale) which is easily measured with a tape measure or movement aid.   When a ship executes a larger change of course (> 30°) she incurs the cumulative cost of two kts per tick on the Ship Turn Indicator.

Lonnie, now I am confused.  Is the Turn indicator wrong, i.e., there is no cost for turning less than 36°, other than 1kt per 1cm?  So at 36° you pay 2kts?  Or do you pay 4kts, since you now pay cumulatively for the 18° and 36° tick marks?  Or do you pay 2kts at >30°, then another 2kts at 36°?Gregory

[gregoryk]

lonnie wrote:

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I fear my earlier response reflects some jet lag which I need to clarify.  Each 18° tick mark on the Ship Turn Indicator is equivalent to a cost of 2 Kts as described in Section 1.2.3 on page 1-2.  Thus, the first tick costs 2 Kts, the second (36°) costs 4 Kts, etc. As a ship leans into a continued turn, lateral resistance increases, costing more "Kts" worth of movement energy. The more she turns, the greater the "cost" of this resistance.  In the interest of simplicity, this is reflected as a constant 2 Kts/18° on the Ship Turn Indicator.   By allowing minor turns of < 30° to be made without measuring with the Ship Turn Indicator, movement is made easier and captains can, in effect, execute these minor changes in course without extra cost at the normal one Kt/1oo yds due to minor lateral resistance as noted in my earlier reply.  For turns > 30°, the cumulative cost is simulated at a cost of 2 Kts/tick.  Thus, a two tick turn (36°) costs 4 Kts, etc.

billowen wrote

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So to make sure I've got it:Cost in Knots / For Turns (degrees)[ul]0 / 1-172 / 18-354 / 36-536 / 54-718 / 72-8910 / 90-107etc. up to 20 / 180[/ul]

I think Bill's speed cost breakdown is correct.Gregory