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AP Table modifiers


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#1 Malcolm Sleight

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 11:26 AM

I've only played in a demo game because I'm a complete newbie, but I'm working on putting a game together. As a result I have a questions that are related.I read in another post that the AP Modifiers on page 8.2 of the core rules are not cumulative. However, this seems to defeat the statement that APCR effect tails off with distance.For example - A Pz IIIH has a normal base AP OV of 6 (after the hit has been rolled), whereas it has a base APCR of 11 (correct ?). Now, the normal AP round will be modified by the

#2 Bob Benge

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 12:50 AM

Looks like your post was cut off, but I think I can answer your question. If you refer to the Advanced Reference Card (ARC) you will find on the front side (page 1) the AP Modifiers to Kill Table. There is a column for HVAP/APCR that tapers off the HVAP APCR penetration values starting at 36" with -2, then 48" with -4, then 60" with -6 and then 72" with -8 to the penetration of the round. Now at 6" range the penetration value is +1 (typo in the card in the Core Rules) and at 2" a +2. The cumulation is actually built into the modifiers as you will note that the degredation of the HVAP/APCR is -2 per 12" starting at 36". Your example of the Pz-IIIH APCR round with 11AP would have the following penetration at the ranges specified:2"=13AP, 6"=12AP, 12"=11AP, 24"=11AP, 36"=9AP, 48"=7AP, 60"=5AP, and 72"=3APNow the AP ratings for a normal AP round from this table degrade at the following:2"=+2AP, 6"=+1AP, 12"+24"=0", 36"=-1AP, 48"=-2AP, 60"=-4AP and 72"=-5APThus the Pz-IIIH normal AP round with 6AP penetration would be:2"=8AP, 6"=7AP, 12"=6AP, 24"=6AP, 36"=5AP, 48"=4AP, 60"=2AP, and 72"=1AP.Does this help? :)

#3 Malcolm Sleight

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 03:49 PM

Bob,Thanks for reply. Yes, it appears that my post was cut off for some reason. However, you did guess correctly, the remainder of my question. And yes it does help. So I guess that in some cases, it is better to use APCR always over AP? because you get a better penetration value.Would you suggest putting limits on HVAP/APCR?

#4 Bob Benge

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 12:25 AM

Great glad to help. :)As to limiting APCR I would say yes to an extent. German APCR was very rare later in the war (starting getting rare in 1943 due to tungsten shortage) while American and British APCR/APDS rounds were more common place. APCR rounds were not loaded exclusively for any nation so if you are playing more historical then limits would be called for. To keep things simple I usually use a specific to-hit number as a way to limit the rounds. Example: any die roll of 15 or greater on a to-hit roll runs the tank out of APCR. It keeps things simple. Now all you have to do is somehow mark or remember which tank is out. I usually use a little puff ball or marker for this. You can also use limits, or lack of limits to balance a game especially late war games when using the big German and Russian tanks:)

#5 nexus6

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 05:04 PM

Pz.IIIH has 50mm gun so should be for normal AP used modifiers from column '<57mm'. I noticed that HVAP/APCR modifiers are right if we compare to modifiers for bigger guns but in case guns <57mm are wrong. I think there should be one column more: HVAP for guns <57mm or in case HVAP/APCR smaller than 57mm just use column '<57mm' 



#6 Bob Benge

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Posted 01 December 2018 - 12:59 PM

Hi Nexus,

 

The point of the AP modifiers to Kill chart is to account for range in the kill effect of the round. With special rounds like APCR, HVAP and the like our stance was the gun size doesn't effect the penetration of the round enough to warrant it's own table. The ODGW crew went through extensive playtesting with numerous armor aficionados, historians and tankers to set this table. While I respect your opinion I am not inclined to agree. Thank you for the input though! :)


~ Bob Benge ~
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