Jump to content


Photo

Player Aid Software

aids software

  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 RFL611

RFL611

    Private

  • Members
  • 8 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake

Posted 05 February 2015 - 03:36 PM

Hello all,

 

I am new to the game and this forum and I am wondering if there is any ODGW prohibition against development of software player aids for GQ3 since I have seen nothing through searches and the Vassal site?  I assume they wouldn't allow anybody else profiting from their content but what if the aids were free for personal use?

 

For my own personal use I have created a PC utility to emulate the ship logs and air formation logs to reduce paper waste and a little more functionality over paper logs.   Each ship log is generated as needed after reading the ship class' data from a database.   Scenarios can also be saved in the database and each ship involved is loaded into a separate log form at the start.  

For example:

Bismark%20log_zpspyexawhr.png

 

The above log shows damage to the Bismark (the black'ed out boxes).  (Please ignore the pluses in the radar boxes, I was just doing a what if the Bismark had better radar)

 

Bob



#2 Cpt M

Cpt M

    Colonel

  • ODGW Staff
  • 939 posts

Posted 05 February 2015 - 08:57 PM

Very nice!  A utility like yours is certainly a help.  I expect the future of gaming lies in the application of such aids to the game board.  As for GQ3.3; well, the authors are decidedly not computer savvy enough to venture into that arena, I'm afraid.  A good friend of mine (who writes apps for a living) and I ran through some ideas of an app for GQ3.3.  Our idea was a tablet (or phone) app that would handle the ship logs and firing.  One idea was to have the firer results (generated on the firer's platform) "thrown" to the target's platform (where the determination of damage would be handled by another subroutine), thereby eliminating the hand logging of the results.  (When we discussed this, the tech was just coming on line; today, it might be doable).  A lot of interesting possibilities....     



#3 RFL611

RFL611

    Private

  • Members
  • 8 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake

Posted 05 February 2015 - 10:37 PM

I believe I have the aid in good enough shape that I can share for others to start using once I add some documentation to it.  Currently it only has ships for Germany, Great Britain and Italy, not all yet but enough to fight some scenarios like the River Plate, Cape Spartivento, Bismarck vs Hood and Convoy HX106.   I did start to code a way to resolve gunnery fire and calculate damage but I think others, like myself, would probably just prefer to actually roll dice and use the damage charts.  The utility also allows logs for submarines, planes, merchant ships and small craft.   Each log can be saved to disk if the players run out of time and need to resume at a later time.   The ship database is local (SQLite) and can be modded by anyone who has the skill and patience to do so, however their changes may be overwritten if they upgrade from another source (unless they share the changes back).   Creating new scenarios are a lot easier.



#4 RFL611

RFL611

    Private

  • Members
  • 8 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake

Posted 06 February 2015 - 05:13 PM

A preliminary version of the documentation is at:  https://drive.google...rw3I&authuser=0.   You may need to choose Download in order to view it properly in a browser.



#5 William Owen

William Owen

    Private

  • Members
  • 24 posts
  • LocationSoca, Canelones, Uruguay, South America

Posted 06 February 2015 - 08:19 PM

Bravo Robert! It's looking good.

 

Incidentally, I think the players like to roll the dice and I can't see the benefit that would merit all the programing to make the game robotic. If the game becomes a black box, they won't learn tactics. If they must input data in a digital device, is that worth the trouble?

 

My biggest problem is just learning to play the game's subsystems in an isolated situation where I may be the only one with the rules within a 2000 mile radius! But the good news is that I have trained 5 new-to-wargames and 4 gamers (but not naval) to play the game and only 1 "casualty" so far. It's surprising how many potential players surround us and you never know until you ask.

 

The Scenario builder and library to store them function is fantastic. I am surprised at how few scenarios avid GQ players have added. Or perhaps I am not good at finding them spread all over creation.

 

One project I am working on is a Narvik land/sea campaign. I will not be making it detailed for fear of getting lost in the minutia (and making the campaign unplayable). But have a certain number of decision steps that interrelate and set up various ways of getting situations set up first by sea and then on land. But my goal is this winter (which is in June here in the southern hemisphere).

 

For now, the land game will be using the Great Battles of WWII system. But I will also have to decipher how to run airplanes and submarines in GQ3 by then too!



#6 RFL611

RFL611

    Private

  • Members
  • 8 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake

Posted 06 February 2015 - 10:12 PM

Bill,

 

Some clarifications if I may... 

The utility is a Windows program not a web app and there is currently not a real scenario builder per se.  The scenarios are created using the SQLiteStudio program but in the future an actual scenario builder utility can be added relatively easily.  I think the only way to make a "fun to use" utility to calculate hits and damage would be to include audio and maybe video of ships getting hit.  

 

I would assume that this aid would be mostly used by judges at a gathering of players at one place or for solitary play.   Playing by email would probably require features like logging or replay ability, not something I have considered yet.

 

Bob



#7 RFL611

RFL611

    Private

  • Members
  • 8 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake

Posted 09 February 2015 - 12:16 PM

Version 1.0 is now available at:  https://drive.google...EdjQ&authuser=0

 

ShipLogger_Setup.exe

 

You may also need to download the Microsoft Framework 4 install “dotNetFx40_Full_x86_x64.exe” if your system does not already have Framework 4 installed.



#8 RFL611

RFL611

    Private

  • Members
  • 8 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake

Posted 10 February 2015 - 12:44 PM

If anyone is having any problems/errors with the utility please let me know at rflieb@yahoo.com.

 

I would also appreciate any feedback on how it works or how I might improve it.

 

Thanks,

Bob



#9 RFL611

RFL611

    Private

  • Members
  • 8 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake

Posted 27 February 2015 - 06:42 PM

Hi,

 

I'm back again with a new version (v1.1) , this time with all the classes for the UK, German,and Italian navies (minus a few Italian DD classes).

Download here:  https://dl.orangedox...ogger_Setup.zip

 

It also has a currently undocumented scenario editor.  The doc should come soon.

 

 

 

Bob



#10 RFL611

RFL611

    Private

  • Members
  • 8 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake

Posted 03 March 2015 - 05:37 PM

There appears to be a problem in the previous version (1.1.0) with most of the British DDs.   I have fixed them, added the French navy and added some Help for the scenario editor.  New version 1.1.1
 
 
Bob
 


#11 MatthewB

MatthewB

    Private

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 21 August 2015 - 04:55 AM

Very nice!  A utility like yours is certainly a help.  I expect the future of gaming lies in the application of such aids to the game board.  As for GQ3.3; well, the authors are decidedly not computer savvy enough to venture into that arena, I'm afraid.  A good friend of mine (who writes apps for a living) and I ran through some ideas of an app for GQ3.3.  Our idea was a tablet (or phone) app that would handle the ship logs and firing.  One idea was to have the firer results (generated on the firer's platform) "thrown" to the target's platform (where the determination of damage would be handled by another subroutine), thereby eliminating the hand logging of the results.  (When we discussed this, the tech was just coming on line; today, it might be doable).  A lot of interesting possibilities....     

This is the very first thing I thought of when I got back into Naval Gaming:

Create an App for phone or Tablet (I could do the iPhone/iPad app, but not a Droid or Windows Phone App).

But my idea was to keep information to a minimum. The App would give out damage to ships, but the firing ship would not know the results of the damage, unless it was something very obvious (listing ship, fire, bow/stern missing, torpedo or shell explosion, etc.).

The coding for this is actually trivial, and the XCode App actually has a drag-drop system for many of the code modules you would need. Sending data to-from other phones - it is just an SMS message, at the most basic, but the means of display (which app receives the message) is indicated by a code module, or a line of code (in whichever language the App is programmed in - I know C++, and a few other derivative languages for iPhone dev work. But most languages work the same, syntax just differs slightly).

But this is just a basic set of enumerated choices for all actions and outcomes.

This is something that should be done.


edit:

To address some other aspects of such an App that removes the die-rolling from the players.

I used to play a LOT of GM moderated games in the 1980s (mostly from Game Designers Workshop (which is NOT GW, it is GDW, for any who might accidentally confuse the two): These games ranged from Napoleonic Warships (Technically an Avalon Hill Game), to Modern Ground Warfare, and Sci-Fi (Traveller related).

In Dallas, Texas, there was even one of the big names of WWII Naval Gaming: Chuck Delafield, who would sometimes run such games.

The players still learned tactics, which are completely divorced from die-rolling.

What the players did in such games was to issue orders to their troops as if they were the actual force commander. They learned that these orders take time to send/recieve, and that actions do not occur instantly.

They also learned that IRL you do not have omniscient knowledge of the battlefield, and cannot tell much about the effects of fire other than the things I mentioned previously (catastrophic effects, or effects which produce a highly visible artifact). It meant that they would not be able to make decisions such as shifting their fire from a ship that was still afloat (but which typically everyone would know was doomed to flounder/sink within a turn or two) to fresh targets simply because of the public knowledge that the ship was doomed. Which In Real Life might not be known (many ships can list without sinking, or flooding compartments can right them, giving the appearance of less damage than actually has occurred).

And it taught players the benefit of planning, and organization, and having a battle doctrine.

The die-rolling is just a distraction that gamers have become used to. When you remove the mechanics from the players, all that is left is strategy and tactics. They must then learn how to give cogent orders, and learn other means of controlling the action and narrative than little boxes checked off a log.



MB



#12 Lonnie Gill

Lonnie Gill

    Captain

  • ODGW Staff
  • 305 posts

Posted 24 August 2015 - 02:28 PM

G' Day RFL611,

 

Interesting ideas and good discussion on this topic.  As Captain M so aptly mentioned, software is "not my bag" or focus of interest, so I will leave that to you.  Some of us are just more computer literate than others.

 

As the designer, I would like to make clear is that I applaud your intention to add some useful playing aids/game enhancements to the GQ 3.3 system.  As I have mentioned in the front end to the various versions, I hope you make GQ your own and customize it to best meet your own interests.  All I ask is that you share your enhancements with the rest of the GQ crew at no charge. I encourage you to post your enhancements on Forum so all of us can benefit.  No one person comes up with all the good ideas,so let's share our creativity.  That's good for all of us. We're always looking for a better mouse trap to enhance and improve our hobby.

 

I, of course, have to add the legal qualifier for the designers and publisher (ODGW) is that your developments are not for profit and are listed under your name to reflect they are your ideas, not official changes to the GQ system.  

 

LONNIE



#13 MatthewB

MatthewB

    Private

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 02 September 2015 - 07:15 AM

I have a question about the whole "Publishing Free" thing.

Has ODGW ever considered the possibility of creating an App for the game to put in the Apple App store?

This could range from play-aids to a complete digitization of the rules (the game as a graphics game).

With GQ3 coded as a graphics game (using something like the Unity engine), then it could be integrated with Strategic games that use GQ3 as the resolution engine for Naval Combat.

I completely understand play-aids being free, though.

Just a thought.



#14 Kenny Noe

Kenny Noe

    Mein Panzer Guru

  • ODGW Staff
  • 782 posts

Posted 02 September 2015 - 07:46 AM

Matt,

 

ODGWLLC simply doesn't have the resources to design / maintain APPs for Apple or Android.  While a great idea and if someone in the community wants to develop / maintain, we wouldn't mind.  It would be a community item and under the legal qualifier that Lonnie defined.

 

Thanks for the comment!!

 

Kenny Noe

ODGWLLC



#15 jaycee

jaycee

    Private

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 16 April 2016 - 06:58 AM

 

There appears to be a problem in the previous version (1.1.0) with most of the British DDs.   I have fixed them, added the French navy and added some Help for the scenario editor.  New version 1.1.1
 
 
Bob

 

My computer regards this as dangerous and will not let me open it.

Any suggestions??.



#16 MatthewB

MatthewB

    Private

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 28 December 2016 - 06:11 PM

Any Raw application downloaded from the internet is going to be labeled as Dangerous, by any computer at this point.

This is due to very obvious reasons, that Raw Code can easily and maliciously access any systems once you open it.

My solution to this problem is that I have a very old notebook computer than I use to open such apps in.

It has no data, nor access to any of my personal data (I don't have any email or social media access on it).

I understand that isn't always an option for everyone.

But you can download software scanning programs in addition to the basic protections provided by browsers or operating systems.

These programs will download the software onto a Virtual Machine, and isolate it from the rest of the system, and then it "scans" it both by simply "looking" at the code and comparing it to known viruses or malware, and then by opening it in the virtual machine, and "killing" it if the software does anything malicious.

This is a good place to start:

http://www.techrepub...h-checking-out/

But more advanced tools (derived from those such as Hijack This, listed in the link), require a fairly decent knowledge of command-line operations (much neglected these days).

MB
 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users