I'd like to ask just what the Brit 15 inch on the RN gunnery chart represents. Does it apply as is to the RN for the period 1939 to 1945? Or is it taking improved shells into consideration that did not come into service until 1942 or there about? I'm being told that the 15 inch should not penetrate BA armor up to 18,000 yards in 1940. That instead its penetration should be reduced to BB by a range band or two; say beyond 15,000 yards.
The Brit 15 inch
#1
Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:46 AM
#2
Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:13 PM
I'd like to ask just what the Brit 15 inch on the RN gunnery chart represents. Does it apply as is to the RN for the period 1939 to 1945? Or is it taking improved shells into consideration that did not come into service until 1942 or there about? I'm being told that the 15 inch should not penetrate BA armor up to 18,000 yards in 1940. That instead its penetration should be reduced to BB by a range band or two; say beyond 15,000 yards.
- Brooks Witten likes this
#3
Posted 14 July 2018 - 11:32 AM
Correction:
"The only shells in frontline use during WWII would be the APC Mk XIIIa and APC Mk XIIIb (all the prior shells, the APC Mk Ia(4crh), APC Mk IIIa(4crh) Greenboy, APC Mk Va(4crh), and APC Mk XIIa(4crh) had been retired)."
Never post before coffee!
#4
Posted 17 July 2018 - 12:28 PM
Thank you. It is my experience with GQ3.3 that when ever the rules are questioned they have always been vindicated when all the evidence is in. That is why I questioned the argument and your reply confirms my belief that the rules had it right.
#5
Posted 26 March 2020 - 10:19 PM
Reopening this topic, you state in your reply:
'So in game terms, there would be no difference in armor penetration between the unmodified and modified 15" ships. The only difference would be the maximum range, which is already indicated on the RN CRT.'
I'm cannot find anything in the CRT which distinguishes between the Mk I mounting for the British 15 inch gun and the refurbished Mk I(N) mountings as on WARSPITE, QE, VALIANT, RENOWN and VANGUARD. The range difference is tactically important as shown by the performance of WARSPITE's guns vis a vis MALAYA's at Calabria.
The CRT appears to refer to the Mk I (N).
In the same vein, I presume the 6 inch column refers to the more modern gun on the light cruisers of the 30s and 40s, not those on the C, D and E classes, EAGLE and older battleship secondaries.
Ric
#6
Posted 28 March 2020 - 12:55 PM
Ric,
If you look on the Royal Navy Gunfire CRT, in the [Day] 24,000 yard row between the 15" and 14" columns, there is a little box that says ' Old 15" '. That is to indicate the British BBs which had not had their 15" gun elevation increased have a maximum range of 24,000 yards. Unfortunately, the meaning for that little box, and the ships it pertains to, are not called out.
WRT the British 6" guns, in Defending the Malay Barrier, The ABDA Campaign, we added Optional Rule 3.12, which states "Due to several factors (e.g. gun and gun mount design, shell handling and ammo supply restrictions, fire control issues, etc.) the following old Commonwealth and USN CLs armed with 6” guns should not be allowed to use GQ 3.3 Rapid Fire":
#7
Posted 29 March 2020 - 12:17 AM
Thanks very much, Dave. I missed the reference in the original CRT as we have always used the 1cm = 200 yards download. Happy with the 6 inch gun restriction but I feel there should also be a range penalty. An easy solution for that would be to adopt the same solution as for the unmodified 15 inch.
A column for the Brit 7.5 inch would also be useful.
#8
Posted 29 March 2020 - 12:24 AM
Further to the above, a closer has look has shown that the 1cm = 200 yd download also has the old 15 inch designation. My bad.
ric
#9
Posted 29 March 2020 - 09:19 AM
WRT the British 7.5", I'm sure it wasn't included due to space restrictions on the chart, and the fact it would only apply to 3 ships (Hawkins class cruisers), and only 2 ships after May 1940.
You might note on the Italian Gunfire CRT, it combines the 7.5" (for ships, only found on San Giorgio) and the 6". I can't really comment on this, other than to note it appears from a range perspective to be reasonable. The NavWeaps pages for both the British and Italian 7.5" guns are not as comprehensive as others (e.g. there is no penetration data, or data on the bursting charge). You could take the same approach with the British 7.5" (I would add the caveat that they cannot rapid fire, and would probably limit them to 21,000 yards max range). The only other thing I personally might do is, referencing the Soviet Gunfire CRT's 7.1", I might say the British 7.5" should use the 8" Equivalent Damage Table, except the entry for "CA - CS" is x1. I might even do the same for San Giorgio...
I ran into a similar issue doing an Operation Cerberus/Channel Dash game for the 9.2" guns of the South Foreland Battery. I elected to use the 10"-9.4" from the Northern Navies Gunfire CRT.
Dave
#10
Posted 29 March 2020 - 10:51 PM
Thanks again, Dave. All very useful suggestions which give us something to work on.
Ric
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users