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Moral for stands vs unit

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#1 Andrew Burton

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 10:37 AM

I run lots of large infantry units and trying to keep up with each stands condition is driving me nuts.  I don't want to worry is one of my stands that was damaged and suppressed is ready to run or goes broken,  I am more worried about each unit, not the stand in the back just took a hit by a mortar and is running off the board.  I am not big on being a book keeper how each stand is doing, don't mind it for tanks you have like 24 that is not a problem, with my infantry I have at time like 56 of them I am going nuts trying to be a book keeper, is their an easer solution to do just the condition of the over all unit?

#2 Mark 1

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 09:30 PM

In my experience, not just with Mein Panzer but with almost all of the rulesets I've used for 20th century warfare, the number of stands I can manage is pretty consistent regardless of whether the stand is infantry, support weapons, or tanks.


This is one of the reasons I have decided to pass on fire-team (or half-squad) based infantry rules.  Mein Panzer v1 rules were based this way.  Several other rulesets I played over the years were based this way.  I found it didn't work for me for exactly the reason you describe -- I would have maybe 10 or 20 tanks in a company, but 35 or 40 infantry stands in a company.  It was unbalanced -- the "granularity" of the vehicles was different than the "granularity" of the infantry -- infantry stands were too small, too weak, and too numerous.  They became a burden. 


When I tried to do combined arms games, at game time the flow was:  some maneuvering, the tanks start shooting, it's getting interesting, the infantry transports rush in to get to the action, the infantry gets out of it's transports to get into the battle, and the game grinds to a crushing halt.  By the second turn after the infantry have de-bussed everyone is ready to pick up their pieces and go home because the last two turns took 3 hours.


My greatest delight in MP v2 is that I don't experience this at all.  I have fought numerous combined arms actions, and the infantry play flows as steadily as the armored play.  Infantry are relevant, playable, and mix well with the tanks on the tabletop at game time.


But it only works that way if I stick to about 20 - 25 stands or vehicles per player.  Maybe if I did two or three games in a row in fairly quick succession, so that I, and some of the other players, were feeling very confident and fluent with the rules, then maybe we could go up to 30 stands or vehicles per player. 


With 1-vehicle-per-model and 1-squad-per-stand basing, I need about 16 - 18 stands to make a company for most armies.  Russian tanks will be fewer, Italian infantry will be more, but in general I get about 16 - 18 stands per company.  So with my self-imposed 20 - 25 stands limit I can give each player a company with 1 or 2 attached supporting resources.  If I want a larger game, with perhaps battalion-sized forces, I scale up by adding more players, not by giving more pieces to each player.


For me I would not try to do 50 stands per player. Nope.  Not gonna work for me.


Your tankage may vary.



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#3 Peter M. Skaar

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Posted 26 January 2021 - 08:44 AM

A number of years ago, I devised a set of unit morale rules for Mein Panzer.  I have not used the morale rules as written which is a check on each stand but had it at the company level instead.

Essentially, it worked this way.

1. Assign a potential break point for the company.  Usually, to make it interesting in terms of playing a competitive game, I would allow about 50% losses before checking morale.  For example, a German or American full strength tank company of 17 tanks could lose 8 tanks with no problem.


2. When the 9th tank was knocked out, then roll the 20 sided die of doom.  Check to see if the roll came over or under the assigned troop quality for the unit.

3. If troop quality check is passed, continue on.  The unit has passed its morale check and is continuing on with its mission.

4. If troop quality check is not passed, then the unit can no longer advance but may continue to engage the enemy.  If a natural 20 is rolled, that means the unit will start to withdraw.

5. If a 20 is rolled, roll again.  If the number is below the troop quality level, an orderly withdrawal will occur.  Unit will move to the friendly side of the map at basic movement rate.  Unit can engage as it withdraws.

6. If the number is higher than the troop quality lever, there is a rout.  Unit must head back to friendly side using standard and bonus move to get off the board.  Game is basically over but additional casualties from enemy fire will be added.

7. In the event the unit passes its first moral check, with the loss of the 9th tank, the unit will continue its mission.

8. If the unit loses a tenth tank in the example, roll again for morale check but add 1 to the die roll.  Each additional loss will add 1 to the die roll on the quality check and increase the chance that the unit will abandon its mission for self preservation.

9. Example:  Unit loses the 11th tank of 17.  In the example above, 2 would be added to the quality check roll.  If passed, continue on, if failed, determine the degree to which the unit is affected - hold in place, orderly withdrawal, rout.  Also be sure that if adding to the die roll, if a 20 is reached this way, on either the first or second roll, the required action will be taken as if it were a natural 20.

10. When considering losses for morale, you can make a CO loss or brew up worth more.  These kinds of things would tend to have a greater effect on unit moral overall.  For example, You could say that a knocked out CO tank counts as 3.
A brew-up counts as 2.

Anyhow, that was a way I have incorporated morale effects into my games before without having to track the morale status of each individual stand or vehicle.

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