6 replies to this topic

[Dan Lewis]

Rules say "Squad stands with a single LMG will only have a ROF of 1"  (page 11.2). Doesn't mention squad stands with 2 LMG. 

 

But in the data book it says the ROF is 2*. If it's one LMG or 2 LMG, the ROF is 2*. It's very hard to figure out what the * refers to. Bad form to use an * and not have a footnote and have to figure out it's in chapter 9

 

Chapter 9 (page 9.2) that says "If the ROF is annotated with an asterisk (*), then the first shot will be at full firepower and the second shot will be at the reduced firepower. Seems that's a contradiction with 11.2 above. 

 

And the rule in 9.2 (my opinion) is a definate 'thumbs down'. The ROF is 2 but the 2nd one is reduced, and veterans will get an extra ROF, so that's two shots at full and one shot at reduced? Or one full and 2 reduced? And we can always split fire between 2 targets....or 3 targets for veterans? 

[Bob Benge]

Your statement (page 11.2) is correct. This should possibly updated to 1 or 2 MGs, thought hte rule is the same for both. As to Chapter 9.2 reference contradicting 11.2, I can see this will need to be updates. and will be updated in next round of updates.

 

As to the "*", space is limited in the data books. We have made it a point to use Chapter 9 to hit on any things such as this and we believed that readers would pick this up as they were reading the rules or would go back to the rules to reference. Up until now, we have had no issues with this. 

 

As to "your opinion" of Chapter 9.2 rule regarding ROF on Troop quality, note that ROF bonus for Troop Quality has a 1/2 or -3 whichever is greater penalty page 7.5 Rate of Fire Section, Troop Quality and Bonus Shots sub-section. In the case of infantry stands, all shots, after the first, are at the reduced firepower since we did the math for you on in the Infantry table firepower section.  Yes, you can split fire between targets if you have the appropriate ROF. We have never had any issues during play-testing or during the many years of gaming with this.

 

Thank you for your comments.

[Dan Lewis]

Thank you Bob. I didn't think that 7.5 applied to Infantry. I thought Chapter 7 direct fire chapter was about firing guns, bazookas, maybe ATR but not small arms. 

 

But after the section you mentioned above, I see there is a qualifer further down the column that says: ROF AND SMALL ARMS  The rules mentioned above apply to the Fire Power value of small arms, except small arms may change their first target for free.

 

I get it now. Sorry if I offended. 

[Bob Benge]

No worries Dan

 

Also, I have updated Chapter 11, Page 11.2 Single LMG Squad Stand section with some good updates that may further alleviate some of the questions you raised. It is posted now in the latest version of the rules for you to download form the Private Downloads section.

 

Thanks again for noticing hte discrepancy!

[Dan Lewis]

Downloaded it and read it, looks great. 

[Dan Lewis]

So I've been working on implementing infantry, morale chapters. I was researching how/when to use infantry defensive modifier and I found this on 9.2. I interpret that to mean the DM doesn't apply to FP, only when infantry is being fired upon by direct fire weapons. 

 

When being fired upon by direct fire

weapons, other than small arms, infantry

have a DM just like any other stand.

 

Off topic but I was reading an article about ATR in North Africa and it said Boys ATR was sometimes used to take out MG nests. Can I use ATR AP vs. a MG in these rules? 

[Kenny Noe]

Dan,

 

There is a two step process here.

 

Step One

Determine if you hit.  This is where the Defensive Modifier (DM) of your target (either infantry or vehicle or structure) is applied.  If you are successful in the roll to hit then proceed to step two.  If you are not successful (ie missed) then based on the type of ammo used (AP vs HE) determine the location where the round landed.  If AP then skip this.  If HE use the table 7.2 "Direct Fire Deviation" (p. 7.3) to figure where the HE (or HEAT) round landed.

 

Step Two 

If successful, determine the "Hit" result.  This is where you choose (based on ammo type used) the results of the hit.  This is determined on the target.

• If the target is a vehicle then its Offensive value (OV) of the ammo vs the Defensive value (DV) the target.  The net of OV - DV gives you the Kill table row.
• If the target is infantry (stand or weapons team) then it's Firepower value (FP) + or - FP modifiers straight to the Kill table row.

The Defensive modifier (DM) is always applied in determining the "To-Hit" step.    Hope this helps

 

 

 

As for the "historical" account of a Boys ATR vs MG in North Africa.  Here's my MP take on this.

 

Player one (w/ Boys ATR) has a target of player's MG.  The Boys ATR does not have a HE or HEAT ammo choice only AP.  The MG doesn't have an independent Defensive Value (DV) since it's integral with the infantry team crew.  So player one doesn't have a OV vs DV option only the FP option.  However, the Boys ATR doesn't have an FP value!!  Oh the conundrum.......   Rules to the rescue.

 

(There is a section in the rules that covers this!! <grin>)  Using the rule Small Caliber from MCR p 8.1 it states:

Small Caliber – Any weapon up to 30mm in size and not listed on the Infantry Equipment Table is considered Small Caliber.  To determine the base Fire Power, add +10 to the rounds AP Offensive Value (AP OV).

 

Hizzah!!   Conundrum solved!!

 

Boy ATR is 14mm AP OV is 3.  Per above rule add 10 and now the ATR has a FP value of 13.  Work out FP attack against the MG team and press forward.  History is proven once more.

 

 

Forgive the snark, I couldn't help myself.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks