5 replies to this topic

[Dave Franklin]

I was looking through Amendment 2 and noticed something that had escaped me before: optional rule 2.8.10 H(AP) Bombs. If dropped from level 6 or higher, they penetrate BB armor. OK, sounds good. Last sentence in italics reads "An H(AP) bomb destroyed the USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor." Fine.

However, looking in Operation Landcrab, USS Pennsylvania's ship log, USS Arizona's sister ship, has BA hull and BA main battery armor.

So how in GQ3 do you explode USS Arizona with the Ammunition critical hit from the BOMB DAMAGE table, when the it doesn't penetrate BA armor?

I took a quick look at usual sources and didn't see anything about Pennsy getting any more deck armor in a post-Pearl Harbor refit...

[Cpt M]

I was looking through Amendment 2 and noticed something that had escaped me before: optional rule 2.8.10 H(AP) Bombs. If dropped from level 6 or higher, they penetrate BB armor. OK, sounds good. Last sentence in italics reads "An H(AP) bomb destroyed the USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor." Fine.

However, looking in Operation Landcrab, USS Pennsylvania's ship log, USS Arizona's sister ship, has BA hull and BA main battery armor.

So how in GQ3 do you explode USS Arizona with the Ammunition critical hit from the BOMB DAMAGE table, when the it doesn't penetrate BA armor?

I took a quick look at usual sources and didn't see anything about Pennsy getting any more deck armor in a post-Pearl Harbor refit...

Pennsylvania and Arizona actually have only BB hull armor at the start of the war. So the (H)AP would be able to penetrate. Unfortunately, neither ship is included in the ship logs, but they are covered in the Deluxe Logs.

[Cpt M]

Pennsylvania and Arizona actually have only BB hull armor at the start of the war. So the (H)AP would be able to penetrate. Unfortunately, neither ship is included in the ship logs, but they are covered in the Deluxe Logs.

Well, upon further review..... This is a good example of how a new rule or change to an old rule gets done (or is this case, not done!). Generally, any change gets proposed, tested, and discussed (often quite loudly!) by the Design Team (a rather glorious term for our little band) before it goes public. Its a process that generally keeps the more absurd or obtuse ideas at bay and insures the accepted ones are at least based on good research. But, sometimes, we get caught out. Which is where our gamer community plays a very important part (we need you guys to keep us on our toes!).

So... In this case, the Optional H(AP) rule ran afoul of 2 pieces of bad data. First, the Deluxe Ship Logs understated the armor for Arizona and Pennsylvania; the armor should be BA (not BB). (This, BTW, will be corrected in the Deluxe Ship Logs for the USN Early Pacific and Late USN Pacific and will be uploaded within the week. Anyone who has already purchased these will be able to download the correct log for free). This in turn led to the error regarding the penetration of the H(AP) bomb in the rule. As a result of Dave's inquiry (and my answer), it was realized that something was not right. Further research found that the bomb in question (the IJN 800kg Type 99 No.80 Mk 5 AP bomb) was more than capable of penetrating BA deck armor at the altitude in question (armor penetration by air dropped bombs is, at best, variable since it is highly dependent on the altitude dropped from; this was the source of one part of the error).

So, the bottomline is Pennsylvania and Arizona have BA armor and the H(AP) bomb can penetrate BA armor. A set of corrected Air Ops Charts is attached showing this amendment. And thanks Dave for catching this; sometimes we need all the help we can get!

Attached Files

•  GQ3.3-Air Ops Charts-R1.pdf   131.81KB   49 downloads

[simanton]

Based on the film and the actual damage, I lean toward some analysts who think the fo'c'sle/forward messdecks fire may have reached the black powder (catapult charge) mag through an open hatch as the ship manned up GQ. The film seems to show a blast (venting through the boiler rooms and up the stack - leading to the old "bomb down the stack" story) followed by a hot propellant fire. Based on the damage to Tennessee, the converted shells didn't perform all that well. If there had been a penetration to the smokeless propellant, I would have expected results similar to Gneisenau's drydock hit after The Channel Dash. Likewise, in the Iowa tragedy, ignition of a significant quantity of the smokeless was devastating to personnel, but not all that damaging. To me, the damage looks more like a black powder blast venting through an open hatch to the messdecks and into the firerooms.

[leefair]

(SNIP)... First, the Deluxe Ship Logs understated the armor for Arizona and Pennsylvania; the armor should be BA (not BB). (This, BTW, will be corrected in the Deluxe Ship Logs for the USN Early Pacific and Late USN Pacific and will be uploaded within the week. Anyone who has already purchased these will be able to download the correct log for free). ...(SNIP)

I just purchased the US Ealry war deluxe logs, and the Arizona and Pennsylvania still have BB armor. (so do the Oklahoma and Nevada). Is this correct now?

[Cpt M]

I just purchased the US Ealry war deluxe logs, and the Arizona and Pennsylvania still have BB armor. (so do the Oklahoma and Nevada). Is this correct now?

This was supposed to have been corrected, but evidently was not. A new set of files with Arizona and Pennsylvania corrected to BA will be uploaded.