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Schurzen Effects on German Tanks


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#1 Peter M. Skaar

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 01:44 PM

In 1943 many German tanks were provided with "Schurzen" to better resist Soviet AT rifles fired from the flank.  The additional side benefit of the Schurzen was a stand-off for heat rounds as well which made those much less effective.

 

Since the Schurzen were fairly thin, what benefit would be gained against larger AP rounds of 45mm and up?

 

In the game there is no differentiation for different ammo types fired at the flanks of German tanks fitted with Schurzen.

 

Here is a possible home rule to better differentiate the effects of different ammo on these.

 

1. ATR and Heat rounds would be the standard effect.

 

2. AP rounds in the 45 to 57mm caliber or less would add +2 to the normal side armor.

3. AP rounds of larger than 57mm and up would only add +1 to the normal side armor instead of the full Shurzen effects.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this? 

 

Since this extra armor is fairly thin, I really don't see it having a full effect against standard AP rounds than the other two types I listed.

 

Thanks,

Pete



#2 Kenny Noe

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:45 AM

Pete,

 

I've asked out MP manager to chime in.  he should post something soon.

 

Thanks



#3 Peter M. Skaar

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 12:18 PM

Hi Kenny

 

Thanks for the heads up.  I am really interested to see what you guys think plus anyone else on this forum that has played and enjoyed Mein Panzer.

 

Pete



#4 Bob Benge

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 07:16 PM

Hi Peter,

 

There is a Schurzen rule though it is not defined as such. The rule is in Mein Panzer Core Rules, Chapter 9, page 9.4, DV (Defensive Value) section and it states:

 

"In some cases, there will be two values listed, where the first value is used against AP attacks, and the second value is used against any type of HEAT attack."

 

Now when we reviewed this I had done some research into Schurzen and found that it was predominately used to prevent ATR rounds from destroying tank road wheels and causing a track to be thrown, thus immobilizing the vehicle. The Schurzen was typically thin sheet metal and, in some cases, even bed springs wielded to a frame mounted on the side of the tank. I remember a good discussion on the subject with the group and found that Schurzen would have relatively no impact to a high velocity round. So we kept it simple and said if the vehicle had a double number for side armor then HEAT rounds would use the second value. I looked at your suggestion and would be inclined not to use it. The reasoning is, is that a +1 armor rating would equate to 10mm of armor and +2 , 20mm of armor and since we are dealing with sheet metal and bed springs I don't think this would be an accurate representation of the effects of a high velocity round.

 

Hope this helps, :)


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#5 Peter M. Skaar

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Posted Yesterday, 04:37 PM

Overall, I don't have any major issue with this interpretation.  Since these schurzen were originally designed to reduce, if not stop the effects of ATR rounds, they should be given full effect against both ATR and HEAT.  ATR rounds are essentially small AP rounds and the Germans tried to cover both the sides of the vehicle as well as the turret so there was concern that these rounds would be degraded if not stopped by the addition of this extra armor.  The effects against HEAT rounds were a nice bonus.

I'm still not sure that there was absolutely no effect on AP rounds but for game purposes I am okay with no effect for "true" AP rounds.

 

 

Thanks for chiming in Bob.






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