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Errors in FAI - German spelling and others


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#1 Charles Markuss

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 09:48 AM

Can these be corrected for your forthcoming de-luxe versions, and for download updates? Correct German spellings and pronunciations in {} brackets using English words to get the right sounds. Those names omitted are spoken as in EnglishBritish CA correct spelling Defence, not Defense (uugh).Page 7-13 Beatty is actually reported by Chatfield to have said “there is something wrong with our bloody ships today”.Page 7-17 Newcastle ‘hards’ coal was of good quality but the best was Welsh steam coal from South Wales, most of which went to the Grand Fleet’s coal fired ships in 1914-18.Bluecher {U with pouted lips = Bleechher} chh = hard sound as in Loch Ness, Bloch rather than as in ‘match’.Goeben {gay,ben with pouted lips for the oe}Luetzow {litzov with pouted lips for i} Moltke {molt’keh} e at the end of German words is never silent – Porsche is {Porsch’eh, not Porsh}Seydlitz {zayd’lits}Von der Tann {fon dare tan}Hindenburg {Hinden’burck or Hinden’burchh – depending on regional dialect}. Not HindenbergGraf Spee {graaf shpay}Gneisenau {gn’eye’zenow) au always = ow, thus {Eva Brown, not Brawn}Prinz Adalbert {prints aadal’bert}Regensburg not Regensberg {ray’gens’burck or ‘burchh}Rostock {ros’shtock}Frankfurt {frank’foort}Pillau {peel’ow}Wiesbaden, not Weisbaden {Veess’baaden}Breslau {brays’l’ow} as in ‘cow’Dresden {drays’den}Leipzig {lyp’tsick or ‘tsichh}Nuernberg not Nurnberg {neern’berck or ‘berchh}Hannover {hann’oafer}Lothringen {loat’ringen} h in German is silent after an o or a tPreussen {proy’zen}Schlesien {shlay’zee’en}Schleswig Holstein [[shlays’vick or ‘vichh + holl’shtine}Ariadne {aree’adnay}Augsburg {owcks’burck or ‘burchh}Berlin {bear’lean}Bremse {bremz’eh}Danzig [dan’tsick or ‘tsichh}Graudenz {groww’dents}Hamburg {ham’burck or ‘burchh}Koeln {keln – e with pouted lips}Koenigsburg {kay’nicks or ‘nichhs + burck or burchh} a with pouted lipsKolberg {coal’berck or ‘berchh}Magdeburg {mag’deh’burck or ‘burchh}Mainz {my’nts}Stralsund {shtraals’unt)Strassburg {shtrass’burck or ‘burchh}Helgoland {hell’go’lant}Oldenburg {oll’den’burck or ‘burchh}Ostfriesland {ost’freeze’lant}Thueringen not Thuringen {toorin’gen} oo with pouted lipsNassau {nass’ow)Posen {poe’zen}Westfalen [vest’faalen}Grosser Kurfuerst not Kurfurst {grocer koor’feerst} ee with pouted lipsKoenig not Konig {kay’nick or ‘nichh}Kronprinz {crone’prints}Markgraf [mark’graaf}Koenig Albert not Konig Albert [kaynick or nichh + al’bert}Prinzregent Luitpold {printsreggent luit’polt}Friedrich der Grosse not Gross {freed’richh dare grows’eh}Baden {baa’den}Bayern {by’yearn}Sachsen {zachh’zen}Frauenlob [frow’en’loap}Muenchen {min’chh’en}Stettin {shtet’teen}Stuttgart {shtutt’gart}Leicht forces is gibberish. Either leichte [plural] Streitkraefte [light combat forces] {lie’chht’eh Shtrite’krefft’eh} or kleine Schiffe [small ships] {klyn’eh shiff’eh}Aufklaerungsschiffe not Aufklarungschiffe {owf’clare’ungs’shiff’eh}Rulebook errorsAll German nouns start with a capital letter, thus Zeppelin {tsepp’eh’lean} pages 7.-1 and 8-9, but not in compoundnouns, thus:Pages vi and 7-6 Hochseeflotte {hoachh’zay’flott’eh} not HochSeeFlotte.Page 7-5 German DDs should refer to TBs.Page 7-9 Entfernungs Unterschieds should read Entfernungs Untershieds Anzeiger [range difference indicator] {ent’fair’nungs untersheets ann’tsyger}.Page 7-25 Koenigin Luise not Konigin Luise {kay’niggin loo’eez’eh}a with pouted lips.Page 8-1 Luftschiff not luftschiff

#2 Cpt M

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 11:14 PM

Rulebook errorsAll German nouns start with a capital letter, thus Zeppelin {tsepp’eh’lean} pages 7.-1 and 8-9, but not in compoundnouns, thus:Page 8-1 Luftschiff not luftschiff

Well, I can only speak from my own experience with a graduate level history writing course, but had I capitalized zeppelin when referring to German rigid airships, my advisor would have torn my head off. Keep in mind, the rules are written in English, not German. Ergo, grammar rules appropriate to English will apply. Now, if someone does a German translation, then your point is taken.

Page 7-5 German DDs should refer to TBs.

This refers to the classification of these German ships in game terms. While the Germans may have referred to these as Torpedo Boats or Torpedo Boat Destroyers, in size and function they were the equivalent to other nations Destroyers and are so rated for various functions within the game.

Page 7-9 Entfernungs Unterschieds should read Entfernungs Untershieds Anzeiger [range difference indicator].

Actually, I am currently looking at one primary source that has it as 'Entfernungs Unterschieds' and another that has it as 'Entfernungs Untershieds Anzeiger'. Based on that, one could assume BOTH might be correct.

Page 7-25 Koenigin Luise not Konigin Luise

True, in proper German, this would be the correct spelling. But most casual readers (and I'm one such) will more easily recognize 'Konigin Luise' than 'Koenigin Luise' or 'Lutzow' for 'Luetzow' or 'Koln' for 'Koeln' for the names of the ships in question.

#3 Cpt M

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 11:34 PM

Page 7-13 Beatty is actually reported by Chatfield to have said “there is something wrong with our bloody ships today”.

A paraphasing Beatty's quote.

Page 7-17 Newcastle ‘hards’ coal was of good quality but the best was Welsh steam coal from South Wales, most of which went to the Grand Fleet’s coal fired ships in 1914-18.

Actually, both were used interchangably (along with every other grade of coal) due to the huge rates of consumption by the Grand Fleet. (Per reports of coal delivered to the RN as reported by the Admiralty)

#4 Charles Markuss

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 06:27 AM

Well, I can only speak from my own experience with a graduate level history writing course, but had I capitalized zeppelin when referring to German rigid airships, my advisor would have torn my head off. I don't see why getting things right is worthy of him censuring you.[[quote]Page 7-9 Entfernungs Unterschieds should read Entfernungs Untershieds Anzeiger [range difference indicator].[/quote] Actually, I am currently looking at one primary source that has it as 'Entfernungs Unterschieds' and another that has it as 'Entfernungs Untershieds Anzeiger'. Based on that, one could assume BOTH might be correct. Could you please find me the source? The key word here is Anzeiger - indicator. UEA or UE Anzeiger makes sense, but Entfernungs Unterschied simply means range difference or distance difference, which is nonesensical.[quote]Page 7-25 Koenigin Luise not Konigin Luise [/quote]True, in proper German, this would be the correct spelling. But most casual readers (and I'm one such) will more easily recognize 'Konigin Luise' than 'Koenigin Luise' or 'Lutzow' for 'Luetzow' or 'Koln' for 'Koeln' for the names of the ships in question.[/quote]You are selling an expensive product, with regular updates (some free - which does you credit). Would you be satisfied with Mizuri or Washintun, Akargy or Konggo? Thought not...?

#5 Cpt M

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 07:56 AM

I don't see why getting things right is worthy of him censuring you.

The problem is, he would be right according to the standard style manual in use (which, BTW, is used by just about every university in the US).

You are selling an expensive product, with regular updates (some free - which does you credit). Would you be satisfied with Mizuri or Washintun, Akargy or Konggo? Thought not...?

Just to clarify... I'm not affiliated with ODGW and my opinions on this issue are strictly that, mine and mine alone. At some point, common usage comes into play and while the anglicized spellings may not jive with the the proper German spellings, they are more recognizable to a large number of readers and have been used in the past in many other formats. Should the proper spellings be used? Probably yes, if only for the sake of academic clarity, but given the wide acceptance of the 'wrong' spellings, I can't really find fault. That being said, any decision to change the product is entirely up to the good peole at ODGW. For me (and, I imagine many others), the product is fine as it stands.

#6 Charles Markuss

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 04:07 AM

Coastal wrote:

I don't see why getting things right is worthy of him censuring you.

The problem is, he would be right according to the standard style manual in use (which, BTW, is used by just about every university in the US). That is a pretty damning indictment of US universities - I'd say they are defrauding their students. Hopefully their language departments are a little more professional. I am currently reading a book by a US academic on the war in the Baltic in WW1 who keeps referring to 'England' instead of the UK or Britain. This is sanother example of loppiness. Thanks for letting me rant - I will now wipe the foam from my lips.

You are selling an expensive product, with regular updates (some free - which does you credit). Would you be satisfied with Mizuri or Washintun, Akargy or Konggo? Thought not...?

Just to clarify... I'm not affiliated with ODGW and my opinions on this issue are strictly that, mine and mine alone. At some point, common usage comes into play and while the anglicized spellings may not jive with the the proper German spellings, they are more recognizable to a large number of readers and have been used in the past in many other formats. Should the proper spellings be used? Probably yes, if only for the sake of academic clarity, but given the wide acceptance of the 'wrong' spellings, I can't really find fault. That being said, any decision to change the product is entirely up to the good peole at ODGW. For me (and, I imagine many others), the product is fine as it stands.

That is some consolation, perhaps when the charts are revamped ODGW will correct them all. After all, they are getting help in doing so for free.

#7 Lonnie Gill

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 04:28 PM

Charles,Thanks for the German lesson. As you can see, I have no proficiency with German. Given that, I made it a point to use the Anglicized spellings for ship names, etc. found in most English language sources. And, as you know, there is some variation in those as well. While I’m hardly the right one to assess the correctness of these spellings, the majority of the purchasers of these rules recognize and are familiar with these spellings from use in these sources for many years. Where they are incorrect, I ask for the continued tolerance of our German speaking crewmembers who have borne this burden for many years. Where I tried to make use of German terms in the text (U-Boot, etc.) you have rapped my knuckles with the ruler of truth. I did make an honest attempt to get them right and in some cases found three or four different variations in various sources. Hopefully, I get some credit for at least trying.Through the years, I have received different – and usually conflicting - guidance from a number of folks as to what is the “proper” German spelling for this or that word. A long time ago, I learned it was better to have people wonder if I was unversed in the grammatical rules of another language than open my mouth and prove it. Accordingly, I plan to stay with the Anglicized spellings. For those who want to go beyond the Anglicized spellings, I would refer then to your generous post which details the proper Germanic spellings and, thankfully, the pronunciation as well.For terms like Entfernungs Unterschieds, I found different versions in different sources. Thanks for the clarification.As Costal has already replied in his post, “TB” has a specific meaning in game terms. Both the separate game classifications “DD” and “TB” are encompassed in the German usage of torpedoboot.Finally, I have found a number of different versions of the famous Beatty quote, recounted by those near him that day. Chatfield’s is the best know, but only one among other versions with slight variances.I suspect you’ll be shaking your head over yet another example of those wooly-headed colonials, but trust that the benevolent tolerance of the mother country will win out yet again.LONNIE

#8 jaycee

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 06:36 AM

Never mind the correct German spellings, what about THE correct spellings of some of the RN & RAN ships!!!!!!!!!.

So far I have come across Defense & Sidney. Instead of the CORRECT spellings - DEFENCE & SYDNEY. 



#9 Cpt M

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 04:13 PM

Never mind the correct German spellings, what about THE correct spellings of some of the RN & RAN ships!!!!!!!!!.

So far I have come across Defense & Sidney. Instead of the CORRECT spellings - DEFENCE & SYDNEY. 

Typos are the bane of any writer, the moreso now that we have that "joy" called autocorrect.  Every effort was made to scrub these gaffes, but some stubbornly evaded detection.  And you're correct, of course, on both of the above and we apologize for those.



#10 jaycee

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 12:49 PM

Okay.

One other thing I've noticed - the cover artwork says it's Seydlitz at Jutland.

But this is a Derfflinger class ship, mitt flashless powder. :)



#11 Cpt M

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 01:50 PM

Okay.

One other thing I've noticed - the cover artwork says it's Seydlitz at Jutland.

But this is a Derfflinger class ship, mitt flashless powder. :)

We had a last minute change of cover art for a better illustration.  Unfortunately the internal text wasn't corrected.



#12 simanton

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 05:39 PM

If all else fails, one can go in and do "pen and ink" corrections to have what one feels appropriate.




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