6 replies to this topic

[Alejandro Gonzalez Ramos]

Is there any way for a ASW flight to detect a submarine and sinks it without the need of surface vessels? If i read this section well I can only roll for contact "When an opposing task force, convoy or vessel proceeding independently enters a submarine patrol area", not flights, and althought section 4.6.4 says "When a submarine is detected, escorts and/or ASW flights in the Campaign Hex can attack her" i'm unable to find the procedure for ASW flight searching for submarines.Thank you

[Blue Leader]

DARTHVADER170 wrote:

Is there any way for a ASW flight to detect a submarine and sinks it without the need of surface vessels? If i read this section well I can only roll for contact "When an opposing task force, convoy or vessel proceeding independently enters a submarine patrol area", not flights, and althought section 4.6.4 says "When a submarine is detected, escorts and/or ASW flights in the Campaign Hex can attack her" i'm unable to find the procedure for ASW flight searching for submarines.Thank you

The rules you reference only deal with forcing a submarine under, however an attack aircraft say from a Scouting squadron could attack using conventional weapons such as torpedoes or dive bombs. As these squadrons did carry ordnance for the specific purpose of attacking found enemy ships.

[Blue Leader]

DARTHVADER170 wrote:

Is there any way for a ASW flight to detect a submarine and sinks it without the need of surface vessels? If i read this section well I can only roll for contact "When an opposing task force, convoy or vessel proceeding independently enters a submarine patrol area", not flights, and although section 4.6.4 says "When a submarine is detected, escorts and/or ASW flights in the Campaign Hex can attack her" i'm unable to find the procedure for ASW flight searching for submarines.Thank you

The search procedure is laid out in 4.5.4, and would be conducted by Scouting squadrons from the various carrier air groups. If a sub is discovered it could be attacked using the tactical or campaign aerial rules.

[Alejandro Gonzalez Ramos]

I also did an unanswered question about section 4.5.4, and this answer, leads me to another one. If when detecting Submarines I use the same procedure as surface ships, shouldn't the be modifiers for submarine searches?, as you know the spend more time underwater.

[Blue Leader]

Subs generally run on the surface most of the time.

[Lonnie Gill]

G’ Day Darth,Let me expand further on Blue Leader’s reply.First, please accept my apologies for the delay in replying to your question. I have been on travel attending to my mother’s extended care issues in another state and once I returned, have been consumed in the final preparation of our next release. I hope the delay has not caused you too much inconvenience.There are several aspects of spotting submarines implied by your question. Random searching of large areas of open-ocean, i.e. one or two designated Campaign Hexes, was demonstrated to be quite unlikely to locate a surfaced submarine. Most contacts occurred when searching limited areas. The first, and by far most common way, concerns spotting a submarine in the vicinity of a surface vessel, convoy or task force when she would be operating on the surface in order to maneuver into attack position or extend her search horizon. This is already covered in rule Section 4.6.2, as you know. However, patrolling a narrow stretch of water, such as the Straits of Gibraltar or English Channel, etc. that submarines are likely to transit or occupy, provides a different case, not currently covered. I will add an optional rule in the upcoming Amendment 2 to provide that contact can also occur when an ASW flight is assigned to patrol specific Campaign Hexes, one of which is occupied by a submarine. In the interest of avoiding undue game delay, I would recommend this be limited to restricted waters, rather than assigning ASW flights to patrol open-ocean Campaign Hexes on speculation.Another case occurs when aircraft are flying extended search missions as described in rule Section 4.5.4. Rule Section 4.3.3 on page 4-3 provides that submarines plotted to for surface movement in the Campaign Turn are spotted by aircraft entering the Campaign Hex during daylight Campaign Turns. This is done using the procedures in Section 4.5.4. Finally, there is a possibility of a search aircraft spotting a submarine patrolling in a Campaign Hex encompassed by the aircraft search arc. In this case, surface movement has not been plotted for the submarine, which means she is more likely to be submerged. In the interest of time, this is not covered in the campaign rules as the likelihood that a search aircraft will catch a submarine on the surface or get close enough to make an attack before she submerges is low. If you would like to add this to your campaigns, you can use the procedure in Section 4.5.4, reducing the contact probabilities listed on the AIR SEARCH table by half. Round down as needed after adjusting for weather or ASV radar at night.As Blue Leader noted, WW II era submarines did spend much time surfaced, especially at night. Search aircraft spotting a surfaced submarine can attack before she completes a crash dive using conventional bombs and torpedoes using the process in rule Section 3.9 on page 3-9. Once the sub is at periscope depth, conventional ordnance is ineffective. You will note the probability of success by a search aircraft - especially one not equipped with depth bombs (aerial DC) - is quite low, but it is possible.LONNIE

[Blue Leader]

Indeed the limited area of search explains why so many U-boats failed to sneak out of their pens in Brest France after 1943. They were almost always caught on the surface, often trying to slug it out with Allied aircraft using their ever larger AA armament. Needless to say the U-boats ultimately lost the argument.