2 replies to this topic

[W. Clark]

It is now time to tell the story of the conclusion of our attempt to re-fight Savo Island. Let me clarify, the Japanese never made it into Savo Sound (so no Iron Bottom yet) and I'm minded to rename the battle as "The Sea of Admiral Denial" to commemorate the fact that no one of flag rank on the Allied side believed (every one failed his morale roll when reacting to the report) that it was anything but some USN cruisers and destroyers shooting themselves up. Admiral Turner even put on a skit for his wardroom of a comic trying to decide which of his feet to shoot.

The fact that IJN sailors were recovered from the water was explained away by our admirals of denial as a ruse by Japanese sub(s) who must have witnessed the USN killing itself. After all as our admirals contended anyone of any good sense knew that the USN had no interest in fighting at night and surely the IJN could not be superior in this arena. After all, historically it took 4 out of 5 cruisers engaged being sunk to convince them and Randysan only engaged three and only sank one, just not enough evidence to overcome their highly valued denial of IJN ability. But this does not tell the story so without further ado, Savo Island, Phase I, Part 2.

It was a dark, but not stormy night. The moon was new. The Americans could see 6,000 yards and a DR result (rolling 2 D12) of 3 allowed them to make radar contact out to 16,000 yards. Of course the Japanese could see 18,000 yards but that was because their fabled near sightedness was really long ranged vision (perhaps another perfidious yellow plot?).

It was the end of GT9 when we resumed our contest having laid the ships back out in nearly their previous locations and headings. To recap some what, hull damage on Vincennes and Quincey had reduced the Astorias to 26 knots but their armament was untouched. Destroyers Helm (sunk), Wilson (all armament gone, reduced to28 knots) and Ralph Talbot (1 gun gone, reduced to 32 knots) were between the Astrorias and the bulk of the Japanese ships. Vincennes had hit Chokai (IJN flag) several times on GT 8 & 9 knocking out two fore turrets and reducing her speed as well other incidental damage. There was also some damage on Kinugasa and Yunagi.

We retroactively applied the flash-less powder rule to the USN cruisers with Vincennes (DR 11, 4 GT fired), Quincey (DR 2, already expended) and Astoria (DR 8, 1 GT fired) so that Quincey would be self illuminating every time she fired her 8" from the start.
GT 9 Finish
Preston used his cruiser secondaries to try an illuminate Chokai, Kinugasa and Aoba (the IJN 8" cruisers within 15,000 yards) while Ralph Talbot tried to star shell Jeffsan's cruiser column Kako and Furutaka (IJN 8" cruisers outside 15,000 yards). Preston didn't have enough guns to engage Yubari (trailing Aoba) or Tenruyu (trailing Furutaka) so he ignored them and Yunagi for the moment. Of course the Japanese float planes continued to drop flares near the Astorias.
GT 10
Preston's star shell illuminated Chokai but the remainder were a bit off for the first time. The Japanese then attempted to repair some earlier damage (at least 1 fire) with mixed results (I don't know what they were repairing and I don't have a right to know but the fire kepth burning and there were some displeased moans over their DR results).
The Chokai now reduced to more than 10 knots slower than the Kinugasa, Aoba and Yubari following her' turned out of line to starboard to attempt to break off and get home. The rest of the column turned to port together to expose their still loaded starboard torpedo tubes but were unalbe to get a firing solution for the moment (moved less than half straight ahead at the end of their move).
Vincennes guns said "wait a minute" to Chokai's attempt at escaping, hitting her 9 times, sinking her, putting Randysan (Mikawa) in the water. Chokai's return fire hit Vincennes in the engineering (again). Quincey's and Asotria's fire was either blanked by the US destroyers or denied by lack of illuminated targets. Other Japanese fire against the cruisers was ineffective but one of Jeffsan's cruisers hit Ralph Talbot knocking out her last rear gun, searchlights and damaging her hull reducing her to 28 knots. One of Terrysan's cruisers hit Wilson in the hull twice reducing her to 16 knots. Preston continued to star shell the older Japanese CAs and their float planes continued to drop flares on him.
GT 11
Preston repaired Vincennes' engineering hit (again) and the Japanese continued their repairs (the fire went out). The Yunagi closed within 2,000 yards of Vincennes now leading Preston's attempt to get back into line ahead from his earlier quarterline. Yunagi's move blanked Vincennes' fire from hitting the now illuminated Kinugasa so Vincennes dumped its load into Yunagi or should I say tried. Preston finally whiffed with his gunnery dice and missed Yunagi entirely. Yunagi added insult to injury by knocking out Vincennes' searchlights in return. The searchlight bulb polisher (we don't turn them on, bulbs are exspensive) would discover the damage the next morning when he tried polishing as usual. Long range non-penetrating fire from (I believe either Kako or Furutaka) knocked out a starboard secondary and set Vincennes' hanger on fire. Other Japanese fire was ineffective and we were back to star shell and flares.
GT 12
Preston put Vincennes fire out and I'm uncertain about further Japanese repair attempts. By now Randysan had resurrected himself as Rear Admiral Goto in Kinugasa. Yunagi, Kinugasa, Aoba, Kako and Furutaka fired torpedoes at the Astorias. Preston turned towards them and luckily for me Yunagi's point blank old 21" torpedoes missed Vincennes. Preston had illuminated the Kako and Furutaka; Astoria and Quincey hit them causing unknown damage (But Kako started slowing down) while Vincennes pasted Kinugasa. Long range non-penetrating fire from Kako and Furutaka hit Astoria knocking out her searchlight (again, less bulbs to polish), setting a float plane on fire and caused minor hull damage. Back to illumination and on the to the next GT.
GT 13
Preston put out Astoria's fire, but his closing brought Randysan's and Terrysan's torpedoes into range and one torpedo each from Kinugasa's and Aoba's torpedo spreads struck Quincey causing catastrophic hull damage (she had already taken 2 out of 7 hull from previous gunnery damage) inflicting 9 further hull hits (a very large air bubble aka a DR result of 3 held her up for 3 GT before she plunged to the bottom). Kako now reduced to more than 10 knots slower than her trailing cruisers turned out of line to her port while Furutaka and Tenruyu turned to starboard together to unmask their still loaded port torpedoes. Kinugasa, Aoba and Yubari continued their quarterline towards Jeffsan's cruisers.
Were we down hearted; yes; but this is the NFL (aka not for long) and Vincennes hit Kinugasa 9 times including 4 bulkhead hits. Kinugasa could not repair the bulkhead damage quickly enough and it sank her and Admiral Goto (putting Randysan back in the water). Astoria hit Furutaka for unknown damage and her secondaries rapid firing almost sunk the Yunagi (or at least Randysan saying "Well she didn't quite sink" seemed to infer it).
Conclusion
The Americans could now smell blood in the water and wanted to continue in hopes they could utterly destroy the Japanese force, but the "Ref" saw that two ships were sunk, and the Wilson had finally failed her morale and was withdrawing as best she could. So with half their ships gone and the remainder at least partially damaged he called for a force morale check. Preston handed me a D12 and I rolled looking for a five or less and recieved an eleven for my troubles forcing us to withdraw. Randysan's ghost seeing that he had lost both flag rank officers, 2 cruisers sunk, 1 cruiser and his destroyer with major damage (possibly crippled) and another cruiser with some damage decided to withdraw also ending any chance for Phase II & III.
The Day After
While Rear Admiral Scott soon came to beileve (he only failed his morale DR by 1) that an engagement had been fought; Admirals Turner and Crtuchley stoutly denied it (DR of 10 & 11). Even the recovery of Japanese sailors during the attempt to rescue Quincey's (she went down very near Chokai) and Helm's survivors only led them put forwards the Japanese sub ruse (or is that subrosa) theory. It wasn't until the recovery of Vice Admiral Mikawa's and Rear Admiral's Goto's corpses that they would finally admit that it was unlikely that sub would have the uniforms onboard to fake their deaths (but it was possible). At this point although they would never admitt it their obvious short comings in reconaissance, force deployment and mind set were apparent to all. Public disclosure was deemed not to be in the Navy's best interest; so in the time honored tradition of doing what was good for the service, they covered it up.
Campaign Results
USN Ship Point Losses
Qunicey & Helm sunk-7 VP
Wilson crippled-1 VP
Vincennes, Astoria & Ralph Talbot repairable within theater

IJN Ship Point Losses
Chokai & Kinugasa sunk-12 VP
Kako & Yunagi crippled?-3 VP?
Furutaka repairable within theater
Aoba & Yubari undamaged
Tenruyu status ?

US Transports unmolested and able to finish unloading
MY Analysis
The USN 8" CRT advantage coupled with great dice and Japanese ship dispersal was what decided this fight. We were too cloose to the Japanese from the start and were never able to put as much distance as I would have liked between us. Of course the Japanese torpedoes could have changed that in a phase as they showed with Quincey. In fact we got out of sequence there (the Ref resolved torpedoes before movement) with only 1 torpedo hit and a low roll leaving the Vincennes damaged but still steaming at 21 knots. The Allied side caught the mistake and Preston's movement coupled with a Japanese re-roll meant that Quincey got the torpedoes instead with the results I've written above.
If the Astorias had been put on the table at 16,000 yards from the Japanese instead within 10,000 yards then this would have been even more lopsided. At that range we penetrate all their armor but Chokai's belt armor while the Astorias are in their immune zone. We are hitting with illumination on a 1 & a 10. The Japanese hit on a 1 for half or no damage except against unarmored guns and the like.
I would have tried to fire without using flash less powder (I would have needed to roll my morale) in an attempt to lull the Japanese about using illumination as I would be self illuminating at a range where they would have a hard time puinshing me for my not hiding my light. If that worked I would have tried going to flash less powder as they closed enough to penetrate my armor in hopes of catching them for a turn without illumination.
The only way for them to close the range rapidly would have been for them to have turned towards me. This would expose Chokai's deck armor and reduce their fire. A more angled approach keeping my fire directed against Chokai's belt armor and that would have taken several turns to close exposing them to my penetrating fire.
It is my belief that the Japanese will not (given average dice) win such a fight. We went through the optional rules and used every one (flash less powder, end on fire armor penetration, unengaged plus to fire and so on) that we thought benifited the Japanese or least benifited them more in this case than then the USN and it did not save them.
As a USN player figure out a way to keep your distance, star shell and shoot. As a Japanese player, figure out a way to close or they will shoot your socks off and send you swimming.

[Frank]

You want to make it harder on the Americans? Just do what the real thing did. Threaten to throw the radar operator in the brig when he keeps insisting that there are Japanese out there. When general quarters sounds, have everyone on the watch crew replaced by the general quarters crew, assuring that it takes at least several minutes to respond to anything, and that the people responding have no clue as to what is going on. Have the commanding officer insisting it is all a mistake. Make someone have to run to get the key for the ammo magazine.

Actually, I'm toying with something like event cards (or dice roll). Get one at start of game. Helmsman error, CO ignores radar data, CO refuses permission to open fire, CO orders cease fire in middle of battle, one ship suffers electrical malfunction, etc, enemy identified as friendly, vice versa.


I agree, that once the Americans got there act together, the Japanese were dead ducks. The Americans learned quick, while the Japanese declined in skill. But it took over a year.

[W. Clark]

My real problem is that I want to win and while I'm willing to offer the Japanese any rules break I think they are entitled to; I'm not goin to gift them stupidy. I'm going to do my best to figure out a way to over come what ever advantage they have. I know its not historical. But if Rooks could figure out back before Java Sea that it was Japanese surface torpedoes and not mines or subs then obviously not all ship captains were like those at Savo. Of course Rooks went down with Houston and we lost his insight. So, I have star shell, radar and a gunnery advantage. If I can get a few timely morale rolls and a 4 or less for the radar then then Japanese have a problem. If none of that works out, make smoke and retire to fight another day; because pressing on as we did historically is going to cost you more than you're going to get in return.

Its a shame that the excess blood shed by trusting citizens during our earlier conflicts, Civil War, Spanish American War, WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam didn't teach our leadership to prepare to fight. Our leaders seem to think that its a good thing to learn by on the job training even though the excess cost is paid in blood by their subordinates. I think it the loss of the draft that finally caused our Generals and Admirals to recognize that they needed to field a winning team from the start as they could not count on an endless supply of bodies for their former place of learning (the battle field) any more. I enlisted in the late sixtys and got out at the end of 80 and I considered our training throughout the 70s to be a bad joke. The fact the Russians were probably no better would have been very cold comfort if they had come.
Now. we are the best and while part of it is our tech superiority; most of it is the quality of training that gives our people the skills they need to kill and not die in droves while doing it. We go to great lengths to make it real and it reduces our casualties greatly. As Rommel once said; "The best way to take care of your troops is first class training". War does not end when the sun goes down and while we were not the only navy not to understand that at the time; ours is the only one I hold accountable for the lives of our sailors.