Jump to content


Photo

Questions from last nights game


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 tripper

tripper

    Private

  • Members
  • 31 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 05:12 AM

1. can you use more than one crew factor to repair rigging damage i.e. two crew to attempt 4 rigging boxes

 

2. Are there any damage effects from sailing in to the wind. or when bow is into wind as a result of drifting.

 

3. cutting free fallen masts, if you were unlucky enough to lose fore top and main top in one move is it one crew per mast for a total of 2 crew or 1 crew for each section for a total of 4 crew. mt take on it is 2 crew.



#2 Brian Weathersby

Brian Weathersby

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • 112 posts
  • Locationnear Houston, Texas

Posted 08 October 2015 - 02:17 PM

Some similar questions came up during our first game. 

 

As for question 1, I would argue that you could assign as many Crew Factors as you want to make repairs, as long as you keep the minimum free to handle sails and any other necessary tasks (pumps, etc).  However, it seems that most ships only have about 1-2 spare crew factors, so how many guns do you want to stop loading and firing? 

 

For #2, I didn't see any damage effects listed.  Some older rules sets that I have played say that you should roll for mast damage if you miss a tack, but each turn in one of those was the equal of one phase here.  Given the time scale difference between the two rules, I presume that Gill & Baulch, Esqs. are saying that your crew is reacting quickly enough to prevent that damage.

 

I agree with your take on question #3.  One Crew Factor per mast.

DISCLAIMER:  I am just a satisfied customer, not either of the authors.

BWW



#3 tripper

tripper

    Private

  • Members
  • 31 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 03:10 PM

Question 2 was just referring rigging repairs after reading the rules again, it implies that you can only assign 1 crew to rigging repairs.

And we also got damage very wrong we took a spar test when any one had a rigging damage from cannon fire when it only occurs on a roll of 10 on the up roll or a critical hit.

Yes like you I have played other rules where you need to test for damage when bow is into the wind as you say, and I agree, failing a tack shouldn't cause sail damage.

The question should really say is there any chance of damage when a ship goes bow into wind when fouled etc.

#4 Brian Weathersby

Brian Weathersby

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • 112 posts
  • Locationnear Houston, Texas

Posted 08 October 2015 - 04:37 PM

Hmmm, OK.  Your clarification made me read the collision/fouling rules a litle closer,  Other than the damage from the collision itself (as per Section 10.5) I don't see any mention of additional damage while drifting.  However, the italicised section does say that "Loss of rigging may also lead to a Rigging Check in the Repair Phase."  Given that the minimum damage you can hope for in a fouling is 2 rigging boxes and 1/2 a Sail, maybe they thought that was enough damage for each ship to suffer.

 

As for the rigging repair, it does sort of imply that the most you can have is 1 crew.  However (I seem to be saying that a lot), if you look at Section 7.4, it says that one crew is required to jettision the wreckage from each fallen mast group.  That would seem to argue you could have more than 1 crew doing rigging repairs, since that seems to fall under the same type of activity as rigging repair.  Coming back to your original example, with a fore and maintop down in one move, I would certainly let you assign 2 crew to rigging repairs for the next turn.  My question is:  Should Section 8.1 be read to mean that those two crew each get 1 attempt to cut away a mast AND each repair one rigging box?  If you take that reading, then it would seem that the two crew could try and repair 4 rigging boxes while leaving the masts still attached (don't know why you would want to do that, but hey...).

 

Perhaps the best thing to do is wait for the real answer, before I muddy up the question any more. :unsure:

BWW



#5 tripper

tripper

    Private

  • Members
  • 31 posts

Posted 08 October 2015 - 05:13 PM

Hi l think we may be at cross purpose here. As I understand cutting mast away is not a repair as such, rigging repairs mean you reduce rigging box damage.

As to the other point when ships collide and locked then one of them turns bow into the wind as far as I can see but i will have to read it again.

It's always nice to see how other people interpret rules.

#6 Brian Weathersby

Brian Weathersby

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • 112 posts
  • Locationnear Houston, Texas

Posted 08 October 2015 - 08:45 PM

I call cutting a mast away "repairs" simply because it's something you have to do to get the ship back into fighting shape.  Also, if you look at the Game Turn Sequence on Chart 1A, cutting free either ungrapling, unfouling or fallen masts is listed under the Rigging & Repair Phase.  Immediately after that, you assign crew for next turn repairs.

 

The way I read it, if you lose a mast, you can do nothing about it on the turn it happens.  In the Rigging & Repair Phase, you allocate crew to "rigging repair" and that lets you try and cut the wreckage free the next turn.  Not arguing with you per se, just explaining my interpretation of the rules.

 

Anyway, I'm running Strachan's Action for our gamemasters tomorrow, and for the public on Sunday.  It looks like we can post photos, so I will try to remember and take some (I'm terrible about that sort of thing, once the game gets going.)

BWW



#7 Cpt M

Cpt M

    Colonel

  • ODGW Staff
  • 912 posts

Posted 09 October 2015 - 08:36 PM

"1. can you use more than one crew factor to repair rigging damage i.e. two crew to attempt 4 rigging boxes"

 

No.  Only 1 crew factor can be used for rigging repair (and only 2 boxes repaired at a time).  Rigging repair is done by the most experienced of the topmen on board and these crew are generally few in number.

 

"2. Are there any damage effects from sailing in to the wind. or when bow is into wind as a result of drifting."

 

No.  No damage is incurred while in "irons".  I know some rules have this, but we have found nothing in the historical literature that substantiates this.  (Personally, I believe this more in the vein of "gamer lore" that is still alive in spite of evidence to the contrary).

 

"3. cutting free fallen masts, if you were unlucky enough to lose fore top and main top in one move is it one crew per mast for a total of 2 crew or 1 crew for each section for a total of 4 crew. mt take on it is 2 crew."

 

Yes, it takes 1 crew factor to clear each mast group (or section).  If you lose both your fore-top and main-top is the same turn, then you would need 4 crew factors to clear the both masts (main-top-gallant, main-top, fore-top-gallant and fore-top) in the same turn.  You can (and, in some situations, will have to) use multiple turns to clear multiple downed masts.  (And, in the situation you described, you are also truly screwed!  :) )   Additionally, rigging repair and clearing masts can be done in the same turn (one group is cutting away the damage while the other is making repairs to bring the ship back into trim).



#8 Brian Weathersby

Brian Weathersby

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • 112 posts
  • Locationnear Houston, Texas

Posted 09 October 2015 - 11:12 PM

Hey, I'm one for three on getting things right!  If we were playing baseball instead, consistently batting .300 would maybe give me a shot at the Hall of Fame.  :lol:

 

So, only one factor repairing rigging then.  The rules say that they can repair two rigging boxes, or one rigging box and "finish one other repair."  Presumably this is one other type of rigging repair, such as replacing a sail or cutting away wreckage.  This is sort of a lead-in to my question, which is: Could surplus crew be assigned to cut away downed masts, or do they have to be assigned to rigging repair?  Your explanation above using 4 crew factors in the example would seem to indicate that if you had surplus crew, you could use them for that, given that only 1 crew at a time can do rigging repair.  If the answer to surplus crew is yes, then can they start hacking away the same turn that the mast falls?.

BWW



#9 tripper

tripper

    Private

  • Members
  • 31 posts

Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:31 AM

Thanks for your input.
point 1 we got that bit wrong.
Point 2 I am in agreement with you on that
Point 3 that's how we played it

Thanks to allfor all the input so far

#10 Cpt M

Cpt M

    Colonel

  • ODGW Staff
  • 912 posts

Posted 10 October 2015 - 07:48 PM

"So, only one factor repairing rigging then.  The rules say that they can repair two rigging boxes, or one rigging box and "finish one other repair."  Presumably this is one other type of rigging repair, such as replacing a sail or cutting away wreckage."

 

Up to 2 factors can be assigned to rigging repairs.  Each repair phase you can repair either 1 rigging and some other repair (rudder, etc) OR 2 rigging.  Rigging repair does not require more than 1 crew factor for BOTH rigging repair attempts.  Additionally, damage incurred in the current game turn CANNOT be repaired until the NEXT game turn.

 

 

"This is sort of a lead-in to my question, which is: Could surplus crew be assigned to cut away downed masts, or do they have to be assigned to rigging repair?"

 

Cutting away downed masts is in addition to repairs; they are not considered repairs in their own right.  Crew factors can be assigned as desired as long as the "1 rigging and some other repair (rudder, etc) OR 2 rigging" limit is not exceeded. 

 

 

"Your explanation above using 4 crew factors in the example would seem to indicate that if you had surplus crew, you could use them for that, given that only 1 crew at a time can do rigging repair.  If the answer to surplus crew is yes, then can they start hacking away the same turn that the mast falls?."

 

No.  Since Cutting Free comes before Assign and Repair in the Rigging & Repair Phase, you cannot cut away a mast that had fallen that turn since you cannot assign crew factors to the task prior to the mast falling.  You must spent one full turn (at least) with the mast over the side.  (And damage incurred in the current game turn CANNOT be repaired until the NEXT game turn).  Additionally, you'll rarely (if ever) have surplus crew factors (at least I've never seen it in all the playtest games).   



#11 tripper

tripper

    Private

  • Members
  • 31 posts

Posted 12 October 2015 - 11:30 AM

OK I am now completely confused.
Let's assume that rigging repairs are separate from cutting free fallen rigging.
So the rule says 1 crew can be assigned to rigging repairs. So the maximum rigging boxes you can repair in one move is 2.

Cutting fallen masts away. Let's start again with this. If you lose your main mast do you require 1 crew per section for a total of 3 crew, or just one crew per mast.I think Brian ment surplus crew to be the ones manning the gun batteries. So moving them to cut away masts or any other task, would I think just affect loading times, and can not use marines cut free masts man pumps etc or can they only man the guns as half a crew.

#12 Cpt M

Cpt M

    Colonel

  • ODGW Staff
  • 912 posts

Posted 13 October 2015 - 10:59 PM

"Let's assume that rigging repairs are separate from cutting free fallen rigging.

So the rule says 1 crew can be assigned to rigging repairs. So the maximum rigging boxes you can repair in one move is 2."

 

Yes, you can repair 2 rigging boxes or 1 rigging box and some other repair.  Cutting away a mast is not considered a repair.

 

"Cutting fallen masts away. Let's start again with this. If you lose your main mast do you require 1 crew per section for a total of 3 crew, or just one crew per mast."

 

I had that wrong the first time around; it would be 1 crew factor per downed mast.  If the entire main-mast goes, that would be 1 crew factor.  However, if, say, the main-top-gallant goes down in one turn and then the remainder of the main-mast goes down the next turn, that would need 2 crew factors (one for each mast group) as that would be 2 separate "messes' to cut away.     

 

"I think Brian men surplus crew to be the ones manning the gun batteries. So moving them to cut away masts or any other task, would I think just affect loading times, and can not use marines cut free masts man pumps etc or can they only man the guns as half a crew."

 

Crew can be freely assigned between repairs, cutting away masts, clearing fouled ships, guns and boarding parties.   



#13 tripper

tripper

    Private

  • Members
  • 31 posts

Posted 14 October 2015 - 05:05 AM

Many thanks for that, it makes it makes complete sense now.

#14 Brian Weathersby

Brian Weathersby

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • 112 posts
  • Locationnear Houston, Texas

Posted 14 October 2015 - 02:13 PM

Yes, it does make more sense now.

 

Cpt M, I'm not trying to be ignorant or obtuse (so if it sounds that way I apologize), but is what we've been missing the fact that both types of repair attempts need to be written down in the "Repair" box?  For example, if your 1 Crew factor tries to repair 2 rigging the entry should be, "R,R."  If you're trying to repair anything else, then it would be "R,G/P/Rud/W" (realizing of course that not all of those can be accomplished in 1 turn).  I thought about this over the weekend, and that seems to be where our misunderstandings lie.

 

As for my comment about surplus crew, that really does not seem to apply to the British.  In looking at a French 74 and 80 (Aquilon and Bucentaure), they both have 2 crew factors in the Surplus box when all guns are manned and sails handled at battle sail.  Obviously those go right out the window when using more sail, taking casualties, etc.  Since French ships tended to carry larger crews, I guess it really is a non-issue.  Once the shot starts flying, you'll rapidly run out of enough men to do everything you want.  And, of course we know that those "surplus" crew aren't just standing around.

BWW



#15 Cpt M

Cpt M

    Colonel

  • ODGW Staff
  • 912 posts

Posted 15 October 2015 - 09:30 PM

"but is what we've been missing the fact that both types of repair attempts need to be written down in the "Repair" box?  For example, if your 1 Crew factor tries to repair 2 rigging the entry should be, "R,R."  If you're trying to repair anything else, then it would be "R,G/P/Rud/W" (realizing of course that not all of those can be accomplished in 1 turn)."

 

Generally speaking, yes.  All repair attempts should be tracked in some manner.  The playtest group is pretty loose on this and leave it up to the individual players to track it as they feel best (just as long as it gets tracked).  No specific, ironclad method was used.



#16 Doomed15

Doomed15

    Private

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 13 January 2019 - 07:51 AM

Apologies for resurrecting this old thread but I would like to clarify further.

 

If I have a ship with 2 Rigging boxes, 1 Hull and 1 Gun damaged.

 

The ship has 2 crew factors to spare for repairs.

 

If I understand correctly I could assign 1 CF to the Rigging(and attempt to repair one box) and 1 to either the Hull or the Guns. I could not apply 1 CF to each of the Hull and Gun.

 

Alternatively I could assign one CF to the rigging and attempt to repair 2 boxes.

 

Is that correct?






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users