6 replies to this topic

[Bill]

Well I finally got around to stopping by to see what's required to upgrade Mein Panzer, and it seems pretty straightforward, even if it does involve snail mail (blech ;) ).Being someone who's almost solely interested in the rules for WWII, I'm not sure if I should bother since the cost of the free upgrade plus the WWII book is not insignificant.So I'd like to ask if the WWII book is a necessary upgrade? If it is, are the improvements worth the upgrade cost?Thanks!Bill

[Bob Benge]

Hey Bill,I don't have a good definate answer for you regarding your questions:"... is a necessary upgrade? If it is, are the improvements worth the upgrade cost?"Necessary upgrade, no it isn't. Let me give you a quick rundown of the WW2 Databook contribution to the Mein Panzer System and let you make the determination, is it worth the cost.The WW2 Databook is a significant change from the original Mein Panzer equipment listings. Many major changes and improvements were made to the original system. The Equipment Table has had a couple of new stat columns added and the format has changed a bit from the orignal rules. The armor value calculations were improved to account for armor angling thus showing more of a realistic value for the high-angled armor of the later war tanks. Significant upgrades were made to ammunition values and available ammo for the tanks. There are over 30 participating coutries included in the new book. Some TO&E has been added for each country. The Troop Quality tables have been significantly changed. A Troop Type table has also been added showing many of the available troop type for each country. The Infantry Table is being replaced with a Small Arms Table that will give specific game ratings for each type (rifles, carbines, SMGs etc.) of small arms weapons in WW2. The Aircraft Tables were expanded to include stats for every type of aircraft for WW2. A Naval Table was added to include necessary elements for shore bombardments. An Amphibious Table was added to include all necessary equipment for gaming beach landings. The Vehicle Equipment Table was expanded to include a much more extensive vehicle listing. WW2 specific special optional rules were added. The Base Point Value system was improved for all data entries to give a more accurate combat value to each listing. Basically the WW2 Databook is over 300+ pages and has additonal free material to download and add to it including at least 5 more countries and scenarios. In my opinion it is worth the price if it has what you want in it. There is in the works a lite version of the WW2 Databook that will have only the 8 major WW2 countries and a paired down equipment table (entry wise but not stat or format wise) that will remove many of the extras that aren't used much in normal gamng. It is targeted for the more casual WW2 gamer and will be offered at a reduced cost. I don't have a timeframe yet when it will be ready though so if this interests you, make a note and bug Jon from time-to-time on when it will be available.Hope this helps, Bill. :)

Post edited by: bbenge, at: 2006/01/12 06:31

[Bill]

Bob,Thanks for replying, that being said, I'm a little perplexed by what you wrote. You wrote that it's not a required to play the updated rules, but it sounds like the rules have changed so significantly that the force information in the original game would be incompatible with the new rules.So are the rules changes backwardly compatible, or are there sufficient stats in the core rules to allow you to play limited games?Just curious, but what were the design goals with the update? Realism? Playability? Fun?Thanks!Bill

[Jonathan Coulter]

Bill,The "Core Rules" contains pretty much nothing but rules. There are some starter tables for different wars but only enough to get you playing. The basic mechanics are fairly similar to the old WW2 edition, but the drop-ins have changed in varying degrees. The infantry chapter is a HUGE upgrade from the original rules.You could make the old WW2 edition equipment tables work but some tweaking would be necessary. For example, in the old rules you had an Offensive Modifier (OM). In the new rules you have three, although two are only really used for WW2 period games. While the old stats are different from the new stats, they would continue to work.The bottom line is its worth at least the cost of a stamp to see what the Core Rules have to offer. If you like 'em but want to use your old tables, just post me a note here and I'll come up with a quick conversion so you can use the old tables with the core rules (I should probably do that anyway, but times at a premium at the moment).Bottom line, there are sufficient stats to play tank-v-tank battles with the Core Rules alone. While not designed to be backward compatible with the old WW2 edition, I could (as I said above) provide you with some help making them work.

[Bob Benge]

Hey Bill,To reply to your statement;

Just curious, but what were the design goals with the update? Realism? Playability? Fun?

The design goals for the upgrade really entailed all of these factors plus... The Core Rules are a rewrite to improve playability, hopefully not to sacrifice reality. Playability has always been our goal. With playability comes fun. Admittedly this game isn't Flames of War but, we believe that there is a lot more playability with the realism that the gamer likes in his war games. We also have a plug and play rules system, where you can add what ever rules you like to the basic game system and make the game what you believe the game should be played. Our MMG bretheren are an excellent example of this. The plus comes in when, wanting to develop the game to use in different eras of combat, we decided to break the rules out from the equipment data for each era. The Core Rules now represents the rules that apply to every era of combat from basically World War I to Future Combat (Sci Fi if you like). With the Core Rules broken out we could concentrate on just creating Databooks for each era of combat that contain all of the statistics for all the equipment for each era and just the special rules that would apply to that era. This would dramatically decrease the time and printing costs spent rehashing the same rules over and over again for the same basic game system, for what would have been, a more lengthy rule/databook for each era. It would also let the gamer pick up just the databooks for his eras of interest without having to buy basically the same rules over and over.The design goal for the Databooks I have written were to provide the gamer with everything they would need to recreate any facit of the war/era they want to game. So I try to include as much data on each war/era as I can find for the gamer. Some may find the amount of data in the books to be daunting. Yet, it has been my experience that games that I have played in my past always seem to be missing something. And it was really hit or miss (mostly miss) that the games would ever add to or update their data. So I tend to go with more is better. The tables are well laid out so that finding the basic equipment for a country is easy. Also, if we don't have a particular piece oif equipment that you need, simply make a post and we'll add it and make sure it hits the next revision of the databook that you will be able to download and insert into your book.Finally, if you ever make it to any of the HMGS East cons; Cold Wars, Historicon or Fall-In, we are there and are ready, willing and able to show you any/all the books and discuss with you the Mein Panzer system.

Post edited by: bbenge, at: 2006/01/13 05:12

[Jonathan Coulter]

Depends on what you currently own.If you have the OLD WW2 Edition of the game (1998) then take a look at the FAQ (menu bar, top of the page).If you have the Core Rules and/or WWII Data Book, then you'll need to sit tight just a tad bit longer. We're putting together the revised Core Rules and they'll be placed in the MP Core Rules Private Download Library very soon.The revised WWII Data Book is a few months off yet.