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Activation of Company HQ


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#1 nexus6

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:10 AM

Company HQ (but not whole platoon) can be activated with other activated platoon. What happen if in the same turn we activate Company HQ platoon? Vehicles in platoon can do own action except HQ (per turn can be only one activation unit) ?



#2 Mark 1

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:08 PM

Not speaking for ODGW, but only for my own interpretation of the rules ...

 

> Company HQ (but not whole platoon) can be activated with other activated platoon. What happen if in the same turn we activate Company HQ platoon?

 

If there is an HQ platoon, then it should be counted into the number of activations, and should activate on its own.

 

In most cases a company has a very small HQ -- one or two elements rather than a whole HQ platoon. In that case, the HQ elements can have their own activation, or can be activated when one of the platoons activates.

 

Example:

 

A Russian tank company has 10 tanks and one or two light vehicles (sometimes a jeep or light armored car, but more often just light trucks).  There are 3 platoons, each with 3 tanks.  The company commander has his own tank, and the HQ also has the light vehicle(s) for it's very basic support services.  The light vehicles typically stay behind as a "rear HQ" (effectively a rally point) when the company enters combat.  So unless you have a battelboard with 4 or 6km of depth they probably should not even appear on the table. 

 

The game can be organized so that this company has 3 activations.  In that case, the HQ elements will activate with one of the platoons. 

 

The game can also be organized so that this company has 4 activations.  In that case the HQ elements will activate separately. 

 

If you observe the optional rules, you will also note that the game can be set up  so the whole company has 1 activation.

 

The activations give a very interesting twist to games with Mein Panzer.  Try this:  set up 1941 Russian T-34 tanks to activate at the company level (a whole company per activation) and you set up the battalion HQ (one tank and a couple light vehicles) to activate with one of the companies.  So 21 tanks have 2 activations.

 

Now set up a company of German Pz IIIs to activate by platoon, and give the HQ a separate activation.  So 17 tanks have 4 activations.

 

The results are quite interesting.  The Russians have very capable tanks (in terms of armor, gunpower and mobility).  And those great big activations are scary.  Hopefully they have lower TQ, so they struggle a bit to use all their extra capability.  But ... what you find as the game progresses is that the Germans can consistently out-maneuver them. More activations means more flexibility. So if your German player knows his stuff, you will find that fewer, weaker, slower tanks will run rings around more, stronger, faster tanks.

 

This is the only ruleset I've ever used that gives me a reasonably experience on the gametable when T-34s face Pz IIIs.  I can see and feel how the Russian tanks are like an axe, while the German tanks are like a rapier.

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

-Mark

(aka: Mk 1)


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#3 nexus6

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 04:15 PM

CO stand have special actions. For. ex. Movement CO Action - and this action have only sense when we activate any platoon plus HQ stand. But some squadron HQ units has 2, 3 or 4 vehicles.  I give example: first activation - tank platoon no.1 and squadron HQ tank to use movment CO action. Next enemy activation and next my activation again. This time i want activate rest of tank from squadron HQ unit, so i activate it and can move all tanks except HQ tank - it is correct?                                                                                       I also have another question - on page 13.1 in 'Company CO' is written "A stand from each platoon or unit under the Coy CO's command must remain witihn Company Command Distance 12'  ''but on page 13.2 in 'Chain of Command' is written " 2. At least one platoon stand must be within Company Command Distance of its Coy CO". These rules confusing me. Which rule is true?



#4 nexus6

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 01:18 AM

Is this scheme correct or not?

 

https://drive.google...9iVJlcPuvrztNxV



#5 Bob Benge

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 10:56 AM

Hi Nexus,
 
For your 1st question, "CO stand have special actions. For. ex. Movement CO Action - and this action have only sense when we activate any platoon plus HQ stand. But some squadron HQ units has 2, 3 or 4 vehicles.  I give example: first activation - tank platoon no.1 and squadron HQ tank to use movement CO action. Next enemy activation and next my activation again. This time i want activate rest of tank from squadron HQ unit, so i activate it and can move all tanks except HQ tank - it is correct?"
 
No it is not correct. The Company HQ element is an independant activation and is not counted when determining the number of activations per turn. It is activated independently from the rest of the company elements (Platoons Squadrons, etc.) at any time during the players turn. The Company HQ is basically a free activation taken whenever the player wishes during any of the players activations The Company HQ element also performs actions as other elements and, as such, has a number of additional actions that are specific to a HQ unit that it may perform. So if you had 9 total activations per turn, a  unit with 4 tank platoons (1 activation per platoon) and a Company HQ and through the course of your turn you activate 1 Platoon per activation, you can activate the Company HQ during any one of those 3 activations or during any of the other 5 other activations that you have during the turn (see attached example). This gives the player a lot of flexibility to maintain the necessary command distance. This rule is intended to force the player to honor the typical unit frontage as was historical.
 
To your statement " I also have another question - on page 13.1 in 'Company CO' is written "A stand from each platoon or unit under the Coy CO's command must remain within Company Command Distance 12'  ''but on page 13.2 in 'Chain of Command' is written " 2. At least one platoon stand must be within Company Command Distance of its Coy CO". These rules confusing me. Which rule is true?"
 
Per the current rules (version 2.1.03 lower left of inside cover/credits page and chapter version 2.1.01 located at bottom left/right of each page)   the following is what I found in the sections you referenced (Note that I think you had a typo in your page 13.1 reference and Coy CO should have been Coy CD as there is no reference in the Coy CO rule referencing command distance):

 

Page 13.1, Definitions section, 1st column, "Coy CD - Company Command Distance. The command radius of a Company CO. At least one stand of each subordinate unit must be within this radius or that unit is out of command."

 

Page 13.1 Chain of Command Section 3rd column, "COMPANY CO Company commanders (Coy CO) are the center of command for the company and the TO&E indicates how many platoons and of what type are subordinate to it. A stand from each platoon or unit under the Coy CO's command must remain within Company Command Distance, 12", of the Coy CO or the platoon or unit is Out of Command."

 
Thus, the Company HQ needs to be within the Company HQ Command distance of an element of each platoon/squadron, typically the element's HQ. This is to ensure that Company HQ has command of its platoons/squadrons.
 
In the current rules I cannot find your references on the pages and sections you referenced as the current rules are comparable. It may be that you don't have the latest version of the rules so I would suggest that you go to the download section and download the current PDF of the Complete Mein Panzer Core Rules.
 
I hope this helps! :)

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#6 nexus6

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:31 PM

Ad. (Special activation) - it is still not clear for me because your answer not negate what i wrote. For example - if i have one company -company command platoon (4 tanks) and 4 tank platoons  So i have 5 activation per turn, right? And when i activate any tank platoon i can activate free HQ vehicle from company command platoon (not company command platoon), right? HQ vehicle can be activated once per turn or many times?



#7 nexus6

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 08:01 AM

Other stands in Coy CO unit have to be in range of 2 '' from HQ stand or 12'' ? The same question about Bn CO unit.



#8 Bob Benge

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:30 PM

Ad. (Special activation) - it is still not clear for me because your answer not negate what i wrote. For example - if i have one company -company command platoon (4 tanks) and 4 tank platoons  So i have 5 activation per turn, right? And when i activate any tank platoon i can activate free HQ vehicle from company command platoon (not company command platoon), right? HQ vehicle can be activated once per turn or many times?

 

You can activate the Co. HQ at anytime free, when any subordinate platoon is activated. When you activate the Co. HQ you place an activation marker on the Co. HQ and it is done for the remainder of the turn. While HQs are free activation they still abide by the main rule that NO unit may activate more than once per turn. Co. Here is the rule from Chapter 13 Command Drop In page 13.2:

 

"Individual CO stands may activate independently of the Activation table, i.e., they can activate during any subordinate unit's phase (activation). A CO stand still activates once per turn with a Standard action and Bonus move."

 

Other stands in Coy CO unit have to be in range of 2 '' from HQ stand or 12'' ? The same question about Bn CO unit.

 

Individual units within a platoon, to include HQ platoons, must remain within the command distance to be considered "in command" and not loose their bonus move. This distance is determined at the time when the unit activates. Platoons in the same company must be within the company command distance and subordinate Co HQs must be within Battalion command distance 

 

Here is the rule from Chapter 13 Command Drop In, page 13.2:

 

"CHAIN OF COMMAND

 

All together, the Chain of Command works this way:

1. Individual Stands must be within Platoon Command Distance of another stand in its platoon. (This applies to the units within the Co HQ platoon)
2. At least one platoon stand must be within Company Command Distance of its Coy CO.
3. Finally, each Coy CO must be within Battalion Command Distance of his Bttn CO.

 

Any Coy CO not within Command Distance of his Bttn CO puts the Coy CO and all subordinate units Out of Command.
Stands of a platoon outside Platoon Command Distance are Out of Command."

 

Command Distances from page 13.1:

 

Platoon  1-12"  (this variable depending upon Nationality or GM preference.)
Company  12"  
Battalion  5 times TQ"  

 

Table 13.1 – Unit Command Distances  
 

Hope this Helps! :)


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#9 nexus6

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 02:24 PM

Next questions...

 

1)  Take command.  Im not sure if action  'take command ' is only availabe for HQ For example: i have company HQ platoon with only one HQ stand, and few other platoons. When HQ is lost what is procedure to take command by stand from other platoon? I should activate one from other platoons and one stand should do action take command?

 

2) In scenario Crusade in Sidi Rezegh are listed platoon's commanders but i suppose they are like every other tank, no influence for game, right? (i didnt find anything in manual about platoon's commanders )



#10 Peter M. Skaar

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 11:04 PM

Hi Nexus6

 

In the case of a single Company HQ vehicle as in many Russian tank units, if the CO is lost then you can designate a vehicles within any surviving platoon to attempt to become the CO.  It requires a successful TQ check to shift to a new CO.

 

Unless you actually designate actual platoon leader tanks, it is pretty much up to you the vehicle you choose.  Designating platoon commanders prior to starting a game is an option you have but I have seen no requirement.

In cases where an HQ platoon consists of 2 or more vehicles, I would designate 1 of them as the XO or 2IC.  That stand would be the next in line to take over the company in event CO is a casualty.  In the real world it would be in order of command - CO then XO, then senior platoon leader, then next platoon leader, and finally junior platoon leader.  In the event all officers are casualties then the senior NCO would take over etc.

I hope this helps and Bob can correct any errors I may have made but I am pretty sure this is correct.

Pete



#11 nexus6

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 02:37 AM

In the case of a single Company HQ vehicle as in many Russian tank units, if the CO is lost then you can designate a vehicles within any surviving platoon to attempt to become the CO.  It requires a successful TQ check to shift to a new CO.

 

But when? In which moment of game i can do it. I have activate this platoon and designated  stand use action 'take command' ?

 

Another question:

If i buy sdkfz.250/10 (command vehicle) i have also buy command stand separatly? 



#12 Peter M. Skaar

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 11:37 PM

Hi Nexus6

 

You can attempt to take command with another stand at any point after the CO is lost.  For example, let's say your Russian T-34 company CO gets knocked out.  Any of the subordinate units can make the attempt to take command immediately after If not activated previously. Also only 1 attempt to take command can be made per turn.

 

If you want a bit more "realism" and don't mind keeping track of such things, you could designate the potential CO replacement stand before the game starts but there is no requirement to do so.  In companies that have an XO or 2IC that would be the normal way to go.  Any stand in the unit can be designated for this purpose according to the rules.






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