Jump to content


Photo

Hull Down / Hidden


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 nexus6

nexus6

    Private

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 12 November 2018 - 04:54 PM

If tank is hull down and no LOS,  it is enough condition for tank to hide? Even in open ground?



#2 Bob Benge

Bob Benge

    Mein Panzer Guru

  • ODGW Staff
  • 1,190 posts
  • LocationLas Cruces, NM

Posted 18 November 2018 - 07:55 PM

Per the rules Chapter 5, page 5.4, Observation section, Hiding subsection, 1st paragraph; "In order for a stand to Hide it must meet certain conditions, and may not be within line-of-sight of an enemy stand as it attempts to hide. Then in the 2nd paragraph; "Vehicles and towed guns may hide within, or behind, cover.". So the answer is yes, since the tank is in cover (hull down is cover and is considered linear cover for spotting) and out of LOS.

 

Hope this helps,


~ Bob Benge ~
ODGW Designer
Product Manager - Mein Panzer

#3 nexus6

nexus6

    Private

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 08 June 2019 - 10:03 AM

What exactly meant action hide ? Crew is masking vehicle? And please write some examples of cover for vehicles in game. If tank is behind corner of buidling (and no LOS so far) it is in cover or not, and can hide or not? What if enamy vehicle move and change angle of visibility in this way that tank lose cover - it is still hidden?



#4 Kenny Noe

Kenny Noe

    Mein Panzer Guru

  • ODGW Staff
  • 697 posts

Posted 05 July 2019 - 01:52 PM

A Hide action is just an action.  The stand (vehicle and or crew) is actively trying to obscure themselves from view by some means (could be putting brush over the stand or maneuvering the stand to a more concealed place) .  Yes if a vehicle is behind the corner of a building and is out of LOS of the enemy it can "hide".  The key here is "out of LOS of the enemy".  

 

You as a player have a "gods eye view" of the battlescape and therefore a situational awareness that your forces technically wouldn't have.  So you as a player may have seen the ambush that your opponent set around a corner of a road, your command (forces) would not.

 

Movement of an enemy vehicle does not necessary make the hidden stand visible. 

 

Ref MPCR p.5.3

Hide      Standard Action
This action requires the stand to be in a position, or within cover, to hide. Taking further visible action will negate its hidden status, as will being “spotted” by the enemy.
 
The enemy forces can try and spot hidden forces with
 
Ref MPCR p.5.3
Spot      Standard Action
This action is used to attempt to spot a hidden enemy, and a stand can join other stands in the attempt. It is considered a Standard Action in any event.
 
So I'd have my forces recc the turn in the road and try to spot for possible ambush


#5 nexus6

nexus6

    Private

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 07 July 2019 - 07:00 AM

Im not sure it is answer i expected. I give example

 

In position A green tank doesnt see red tank behind building. Red tank do action hide. Green Tank is moving from point A to B. From position B red tank isnt in cover. My question is - red tank lose hidden status ? 

 

https://drive.google...qDE2jpYsFI/view



#6 Mark 1

Mark 1

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • 109 posts
  • LocationSF Bay Area

Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:59 PM

Not speaking for the ODGW team, but by my interpretation ...

 

It's a pretty good question.  We might do well to explore a few cases before we pronounce the answer.

 

In the image you have provided, the red tank is out of LOS.  But I would say it is not hidden, because it is not in cover.  If it was in some bushes, or in among broken walls and ruins, then it could claim to be in cover, and could hide. 

 

Out of LOS means you have no way to look at it, so you can't see it.  Hidden means even though you HAVE LOS and you are looking at it, you are not likely to see it -- because it is hidden, because it took the time (and "action") to arrange to be hard to see.  Maybe it backed into a garage, or pulled in behind a garden fence, or they put timbers and bushes on it .. whatever.

 

So your opponent may need to take a "spotting action" to see you -- because they will need to study an area to see what may not be easy to see.  Doesn't mean they will see what can't be seen (out of LOS), but depending on how far away they are, and how big the hidden object is, they might or might not see a hidden unit.

 

But it does raise the question about "cover" that is only "cover" from a specific angle. The corner of a building, a hull down position, or behind behind a hedge, these qualify as "cover".  But what may be cover from one angle, may not be cover from another angle. So in the case of a hull down tank being hidden, can it be auto-spotted if one goes around the hill to see it from an angle where it would not be hull down?

 

It is not an easy question.

 

-Mark


_________________
Mark 1

#7 Kenny Noe

Kenny Noe

    Mein Panzer Guru

  • ODGW Staff
  • 697 posts

Posted 29 July 2019 - 04:31 PM

My 2 bits...

 

In the example given, the red tank is out LOS by the green tank (not hidden) until the green tank rounds the corner.   My games I specifically tell the players that the table top is "true" scale.  LOS questions involving vehicles are usually resolved with a "string of death" center of tank A to center of tank B.  If SOD touches something then no LOS.  (But this is a GM call, if a significant portion of the vehicle can be seen then I'd say yes but give some type of cover.

 

Re: Mark's question, if the vehicle moves around a bld or hill and there is an exposed enemy vehicle or position then normal spotting applies.  Spotting in the open is pretty easy, spotting the enemy in any type of cover is covered in the Spotting Rules.

 

Kenny



#8 Bob Benge

Bob Benge

    Mein Panzer Guru

  • ODGW Staff
  • 1,190 posts
  • LocationLas Cruces, NM

Posted 07 August 2019 - 10:48 PM

Mark and Kenny have nailed this one. :)


~ Bob Benge ~
ODGW Designer
Product Manager - Mein Panzer




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users