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#1 nexus6

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 10:56 AM

in case of tanks it is simple - 1 unit = 1 platoon but in case of infantry of AT guns im confused and manual didnt help. For ex. if one AT guns platton has command stand and two section, each with 2 AT guns we have 1 unit or 3 units (command stand and two section) ? 



#2 Kenny Noe

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 06:46 PM

Depends on the OOB you are using for the game (historical or not).  You have have a "unit" be an entire company or just a section.  The idea is to have a "unit" so when it's time to activate the "unit" the player can refer to what stands to use their bonus move and standard action.   You might be stumped on the terms Unit vs Stand.   

 

In your example I read one "unit".   That unit consist of 2x 2 AT gun section with a Command Stand to lead.

 

 

 

Core Rules - Building an Army Chapter 3 page 2

 

one "unit" of tanks

  Tank Company (1)
      Company HQ (1)
          T-34/76 (1)
      Tank Platoon (3)
            T-34/76 (3)
 

 

I have had a "unit" be a single vehicle "stand" (recon).

 

And I've had a unit be a full infantry company

 

Infantry Company (1)
  Company Headquarters (1)
    Command Stand (1) (CoyCO)
    Rifle/LMG Squad (1)
  Infantry Platoon (3)
    Command Stand (1) (PL)
    Rifle/LMG Sqd w/Pzrbusche 39 (1)
    Rifle/LMG Squad (3)
  Support Platoon (1)
    Command Stand (1) (PL)
    Machine Gun Section (1)
      MMG Stand (2)
    Mortar Section (1)
      50mm Mortar (3)

 

 

Granted the bigger you make the "unit" the longer it takes to run thru their activation and the longer the game runs.  Biggest game I've ran was a division of amphibious Chinese invading Taiwan.   Make it thru 3 or 4 turns in 5 hrs.  whew.... 



#3 nexus6

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 01:55 AM

ok.

 

When i take AT gun section i have take also crew to each gun, right? - when take small when big?

 

if i have for example rifle squad with mortar - i have 'buy' rifle squad, mortar and crew to mortar?

 

 

 

when i have in row two section of  guns (6 x flak 88mm) and third is destroyed then first two or rest are out of command? (tank or infantry can easily change position but in case of guns it is not easy and take time) 



#4 Kenny Noe

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 01:38 PM

Historically you can't have a rifle squad with mortar.   You would have a rifle squad (one full stand) and a Mortar w/ crew (one half stand).  You would "buy" a rifle squad, buy a mortar, then buy a small crew stand.  The decision on small crew stand vs large crew stand depends on the weapon.  Small crew served weapons like MG, some mortars, etc require 2 to three crew.  Large crew served weapons like 88, 155 Howitzers, etc require a crew of 4+.  This is how you choose between small vs large crew.  What did the weapon system have historically.

 

Unless you have previously designated a command stand (one out of  the six) then I typically say the larger of the split unit is the one with the command and the smaller is out of command.   However with deployed 88's, i think they take more than one turn to break down.   Then the turn to move.  And finally "n" number of turns to set back up.  This due to their large size.



#5 nexus6

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 08:22 AM

From Date book

 

UK infantry battalion

 

infantry platoon (3)

         command stand (1)

         rifle support w/Boys (1)

         rifle/LMG squad (3)

        rifle squad w/2'' Mortar (1)

 

 

For me it is clear - one stand of rifle squad with mortar.



#6 Bob Benge

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 11:01 PM

Nexus you are correct and so is Kenny. The small infantry mortars are on located on the stand while the bigger mortars are separate stands. Our OOBs will annotate this as you have found. The small mortar with the Rifle squad is manned by the squad. The larger mortars will need a crew. Guns will also require a crew. the size of the gun will dictate the size of the crew  small or large. common sense should dictate the size of the crew needed.


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#7 Kenny Noe

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 10:55 PM

Doh!   I forgot that mortars like the British 2" SBML, Japanese knee mortar (my understanding those under 60mm) ARE considered part of a full infantry stand.  My bad.

 

Thanks 



#8 Mark 1

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 03:18 PM

I forgot that mortars like the British 2" SBML, Japanese knee mortar (my understanding those under 60mm) ARE considered part of a full infantry stand.

Not sure that we should think of a hard and fast rule, like "those under 60mm". 

 

But then as I understand it the whole "how you organize your force" is mostly just suggestion anyway. The TOEs are provided as guidelines, as a preresearched and preconstructed approach to organizing your force, not as rules per se. The good folks at ODGW have been kind enough to provide the information to build your own squads, your own weapons selections, in the many extra options in the equipment book.  So if you want your rifle squads to NOT have LMGs, you'll find rifles-only squad ratings. And if you want a squad armed only with SMGs, or (in the US Army) only with Carbines, these are listed as well, even though they don't appear in the battalion TOEs that are provided.

 

With light mortars it was largely a question of the doctrines for use in different armies.  Some nations viewed them as little more than grenade launchers.  So for example a French squad would have a rifleman equipped with a grenade launcher on his rifle lugging around a box of rifle-grenades, while a British squad might have a rifleman lugging around a 2" mortar.  On the other hand, an Italian company would have a section with multiple 45mm mortars, each operated by their own team.  So about the same caliber, but NOT distributed to the rifle squads within the platoons.  Just a matter of how that army chose to organize it's light support weapons.

 

As to basing and costs ... I generally prefer ot separate my light support weapons if they were not integral to the squad. But I don't have a British infantry force. So my Italians have separate 45mm mortar teams, and my Americans have separate 60mm mortar teams.

 

And yes, my in my US Army force any given squad could have a bazooka.  But I can also have a team (half-squad) with a bazooka.  That's how I prefer to organize my force. If I had Germans (which I don't) I'd probably have the Panzerschreks in separate teams, and the Panzerfausts in the squads. The rules tell me how to manage both ways.

 

-Mark

(aka: Mk 1)


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