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Engagement Resolution Contact Rolls


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#1 HighFlier

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 04:59 AM

Just picked up Sudden Storm and spent an enjoyable evening reading through it. I find myself confused with the engagement resolution contact rolls, however. I could not find anything that explained what "Surface (carrier)" and "Initiator max speed +- 10 kts = +-3 kts" meant. For example, a Sweep vs Sweep in CTO has the following value: 1 - 4 (6). My best guess is that a D12 that rolls 1-4 is considered contact if no carriers are present on either side, and a D12 that rolls 1-6 is considered contact if a carrier is present on at least one side? As for the initiator max speed thing, I was unable to form an educated guess as to what it meant. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!



#2 Dave Franklin

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Posted 30 January 2022 - 09:10 AM

HighFlier,

 

I am more of an authority on DTMB, being its author, but many of the concepts are the same.  I believe you are correct that "1 - 4 (6)" means that a D12 roll of 1-4 is considered a contact if no carriers are present on either side, and that a roll of 1-6 is considered a contact if a carrier is present.  I am admittedly unclear if it means a carrier on either side, or only with the "Initiator" task force.

 

I believe the "Initiator max speed +10 kts = +3" modifier means if the "Initiator" task force's max speed (which would be the max speed of the slowest ship) is > 10 kts of the max speed of the opposing task force, there is a +3 modifier (-3 if the "Initiator" wants contact, +3 if not).  if the "Initiator" task force's max speed is < 10 kts of the max speed of the opposing task force, there is a +3 modifier.

 

Hope this is at least somewhat helpful,

Dave



#3 HighFlier

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Posted 01 February 2022 - 03:54 PM

HighFlier,

 

I am more of an authority on DTMB, being its author, but many of the concepts are the same.  I believe you are correct that "1 - 4 (6)" means that a D12 roll of 1-4 is considered a contact if no carriers are present on either side, and that a roll of 1-6 is considered a contact if a carrier is present.  I am admittedly unclear if it means a carrier on either side, or only with the "Initiator" task force.

 

I believe the "Initiator max speed +10 kts = +3" modifier means if the "Initiator" task force's max speed (which would be the max speed of the slowest ship) is > 10 kts of the max speed of the opposing task force, there is a +3 modifier (-3 if the "Initiator" wants contact, +3 if not).  if the "Initiator" task force's max speed is < 10 kts of the max speed of the opposing task force, there is a +3 modifier.

 

Hope this is at least somewhat helpful,

Dave

 

Thanks! Do you also happen to know what areas different bases cover? For the USN I assumed ships based at Pearl Harbor are limited to missions in the ETO, and ships based in Sequoia can do any mission in the CTO/PTO and maybe some select missions in the ETO such as patrolling Peleliu? The rules also did not specify this. For the IJN I'm assuming ships based at Japan are available for missions in the PTO/ETO and ships based in Formosa are available for missions in the CTO? That being said there's no transfer mission available for the IJN which adds to my confusion.



#4 Dave Franklin

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Posted 02 February 2022 - 09:22 AM

I don't think I can help you there.  I concur from a quick keyword search, it doesn't appear to specify it in the rules text.  The only thing I saw was a statement under Campaign Start Options "A theater map is provided on the inside front cover and will prove useful for keeping track of who controls what."  However, the Sudden Storm material I have doesn't include the theater map (I didn't buy SS, nor do I play the period; I was provided some of the SS material during the DTMB development process), so I can't say if the theater map indicates it visually.



#5 Jim O'Neil

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Posted 02 February 2022 - 04:21 PM

I don't see a limitation in the rules either, but I think it is inferred. Logically, an Invasion of Hainan would be almost impossible to run from Pearl Harbor. The regular supply runs to Sequoia imply that this is  major operating base in the area of the PTO and CTO. Having said that, a US seizure of Saipan or other Island location could support attacks into adjoing areas. But in general, Pearl Harbor forces would be limited to the ETO, excepting the Convoy's to Sequioua and support of those. Sequioa was intentionally built up as a major base, and thus has a lot of things a hasty base at Saipan would not have, But a Siapan base could offer replenishment of fuel, food and ammunition (from ships sent there from another base) as well as air support*. Repairs and major support require the major bases.

Hope this helps some,

 

* Noumea in Jan-July 1942 is an example of such a forward base.



#6 Lonnie Gill

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Posted 05 February 2022 - 12:39 AM

G' Day HighFlyer,

 

Good questions.  We tried to keep the rules fairly short as most are fairly experienced gamers, but here we probably went a little too far.  These points would have benefited from a more detailed description.  So, let's clarify:

1.  CONTACT table modifiers -  As you and Dave correctly surmised, the number in parenthesis is the expanded die result if the Initiator's task force includes a carrier, which enables it to increase the probability of contact.  The number in parenthesis does not apply if only the opposing force (non-initiator) has a carrier.  Similarly, the speed differential applies only if the initiator's speed is 10 kts+ faster or slower than the opposing force it is attempting to contact. If 10+ knots faster, subtract -3 from the contact die roll or add +3 to the die result if 10+ knots slower.

 

2. Theaters Accessible from bases - For Blue forces, the CTO, PTO and ETO are all accessible for missions from SEQUOIA, the ETO is accessible from Pearl Harbor and the ETO and PTO from bases in the ETO.  I.e., basically theaters adjacent to the base.  The long distance from Pearl Harbor adds a special consideration and major limitation for the Blue commanders. Accordingly, there is a T (Transfer) CD to move forces between the PTO (SEQUOIA) and Pearl Harbor.  Given three week Campaign Turns, it is possible to run long duration missions, but costs an additional CD. Example, a Blue force can transfer ("T" CD) from Pearl Harbor to SEQUOIA and perform one mission (a second CD) in the ETO or PTO, but not both in the same Campaign Turn. Note that this expends two CDs against the US limit for the Campaign Turn, making Blue's planning a little harder. [The "T" CD does not affect the limitation of a force only performing one actual combat mission per Campaign Turn as it is just the time and administrative "cost/complexity" of running such a long range operation.]   Further, Patrol CDs are excluded as that would require the force remaining on station for an expended period of time to defend an objective or the Sequoia convoy route (SR).      Also, Blue could not add additional forces  from the PTO as the mission force must all originate from the same base.  Finally, Blue cannot transit a force from Pearl Harbor through the PTO to do a mission in the CTO.That would have to wait until next Campaign Turn and sortie from Sequoia.

 

The Japanese, on the other hand,  can schedule missions in any of the three theaters (CTO, ETO and PTO) as it has interior lines and much smaller distances to steam. Accordingly, there is no need for a Transit CD for the Kaigun.  A Japanese force can sortie from the home islands, perform a mission and return to the advanced base (Mako) or vice versa.  I would add that during testing the campaign, many of our testors thought that an additional proviso should be added that a Kaigun mission to Hainan should be required to originate from the advanced base in view of the extended distance. Personally, that's the way I prefer it as well.

 

In this campaign we are dealing with large areas and long (three week) Campaign Turns, so the mission planning is kept reasonably flexible.  You will find that the baseline parameters listed above, combined with the CD limits and special mission requirements for many of the Campaign Turns will provide the respective commanders plenty to think about when doing their planning for each Campaign Turn.  Hope the above has answered your questions.  We've found this is a wide-open campaign with multiple paths to victory that usually provides some surprises and keeps everybody hopping until the end.  It's also a fun opportunity to to explore a interesting bygone period when capacities and weapons were different and surface ships were still the decisive factor.  And,came closer to occuring than most of us realise.  You'll recognise all the actors, but thing are very different from WWII.  What a difference a few years made!

 

Lonnie Gill






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