2 replies to this topic

[Doolan]

Hello!

 

I own GQ3, FAI and Post Captain and have had good fun trying all three. They are very enjoyable rule sets, and while we have not played a lot quite yet, we do quite like what we've seen. They're always a good time.

 

That said, as a long time naval warfare enthusiast, there has always been a nagging doubt at the back of my mind on a design decision in GQ3 / FAI that my group has also found very odd. I can no longer resist, and I have to ask:

 

The "scale" section of both rulesets (G2 - VI in the case of FAI which I have in front of me right now) says movement rates are calculated for three minutes, but turns represent six minutes instead to account for the effect of "dead time inherent in any military operation".

 

Now, I understand the concept and agree that in operational-scale scenarios this might make sense, especially in land warfare, but in tactical-scale naval engagements a ship doing 18 knots will move approximately 1800 yards in 3 minutes and that's that – it's not like the crew will pop out for a quick smoke, or the ship will wait for them while they get their act together. How is the effective halving of the movement rates justified in this case? The rules further state that "hardcore shellbacks" can use three-minute daylight turns instead ("Commissioning", IX) and we tried doing that, but then, what is fire effect calibrated for? Our first impression is that gunfire charts are indeed calibrated for six minutes, because when we played three-minute turns combat was extremely deadly for the time scale.

 

To sum up, my understanding so far is:

• Movement rates are calculated for three minutes
• Effects of gunnery are calculated for six minutes of sustained fire
• Turns are meant to represent six minutes daytime, three minutes night time. Players are welcome to "call" daylight turns three minutes instead with no rule changes.

Thank you for your time!

[Landlubber]

Doolan,

 

Your calculations & assumptions look correct to me.

 

I think the GQ rules, overall, are excellent, but there's nothing wrong with "tampering with success."  My preferences for day battles are (I don't have much experience with night battles):

 

- Assume 6 minutes per turn

- Use 1/6000 minis

- Double the movement rates so ships move the correct distance

 

Background:

 

In addition to GQ3 & FAI, I also have the 1977 version of the GQ1 rules (the original GQ rules for WWII battles), and it says:

 

"Since each "Game Turn" represents 6 minutes, movement has been halved to keep the players from steaming their forces out of the playing area too quickly.  This has no adverse effect on the game, because it applies to both sides equally.  In many cases, it tends to lead to more realistic movement as it slows the rate of closure between over exuberant players."

 

I would say it can have an adverse effect, because it increases how long it takes ships at the end of a long line to come within firing range, increases how long it takes any reinforcements to get into position, etc.  But it has the advantage of reducing how often your ships will run off the edge of the table, requiring everybody to slide their ships over.  So it's a compromise.  Also, back in the 70's I think people were using bigger minis (and therefore scales) on average than they are now (1/1200, 1/2400, 1/3000 then vs 1/2400, 1/3000, 1/6000 today), so running off the table was probably a bigger concern then.

 

Interestingly, GQ1 doesn't say anything about "dead time" or the friction of war being the reason for halving movement, although of course it might have been part of the reason.

 

The 1977 GQ2 (the original GQ rules for WWI battles) also uses 6-minute turns and halves movement, but doesn't mention that halving, or a "dead time" issue.

 

Neither GQ1 nor GQ2 mention anything about night turns representing only 3 minutes, so it seems that concept was introduced with GQ3.  The 3 vs 6 minute turn issue also raises the question of why would ships be able to repair themselves twice as fast at night (1 attempt every 3 min, vs 6 min in daytime)?

[healey36]

Much of this "scaling" is to keep the table action within a manageable space. The goal (presumably) is to offer a sense of naval engagements in different eras without having to find a gymnasium to play in. Remember, 18000 yards at 1/2400-scale would be scale 22-1/2 feet (or 270 inches). Similarly, a ship moving at 18 knots covers 54-1/2 inches in six minutes at 1/2400-scale...you're off the table in a single turn, at best.

 

Just sayin'...