14 replies to this topic

[Ian Pudney]

Dear ODGW,

 

I play a lot of GQ3/FAI games and find it convenient to use the play aids to assist with ship movement, but am aware there is a discrepancy.  

 

Why do the rules show 32 kts per 180 degrees turn circles, when the download play aids show 40 kts per 180 degrees turn circles? Which is correct?

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

[Dave Franklin]

Ian,

It appears GQ3 made the change to 1.2.3 Altering Course [revision for compass points] in Amendment 2, where at the end of the first paragraph it says "Turns are defined using the nautical convention of number of compass points altered. A 4-point turn = 45°. Example: An 8-point turn equals 90° and expends 8 Kts."  GQ3.3 has the same, except for the last 8-point turn example sentence is gone, probably due to space limitations.  I can't speak to FAI, and I don't know what the story is with separate play aids to match the GQ3.3 turn gauges on page 173 of the pdf.

 

Dave

[Ian Pudney]

Correction to my original question, should state -

32 kts per 360 degree turn (16 kts per 180 degree turn) in rules.

40 kts per 360 degree turn (20 kts per 180 degree turn) in download play aids.

 

The question as to which is correct still remains..

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Dave Franklin]

For GQ3 at least, the turns defined using compass points altered, i.e. 32 kts per 360 degree turn (16 kts per 180 degree turn) in the GQ3,3 rules is the latest, and thus "correct".

[Ian Pudney]

Dave,

 

Thanks for the response. So will the game aids be reissued/updated to reflect the current rules version?

 

Regards

Ian

[Lonnie Gill]

G' Day Ian,

 

Dave's answer is correct.  Your question made me go back and review history a bit.  The answer goes back to the original GQ III which came out in 2006.  That had the original Turn Indicator with 10 ticks for changing course 180°.  When FAI was published, we switched to the newer Turn Indicator featuring compass points, where each tick mark is two points (11.25° x 2 = 22.5°) and eight two point ticks equal 180° ( 22.5° x 8 = 180°).  This provides a "saltier" feel using the traditional maritime terms for changing course and is a little better simulation of making turns. 

 

Many years ago, I posted two amendments to GQ III:

Amendment 1 included the new compass point version of the Turn Indicator.

Amendment 2 added the "back" of the indicator with torpedo gyro arcs for making torpedo attacks along with the change in the torpedo attack procedure.  The new method was first featured in FAI as an alternative way to make torpedo attacks.  It proved much better and we revised GQ III accordingly as part of Amendment 2.  The gyro angles reverse side of the Turn Indicator was updated with additional, but narrower arcs to better reflect the bigger torpedo spreads used in WW II and the greater ranges employed. 

 

With Amendment 2, the Turn Indicator reached its current form and remains in use today and is also employed in the optional acrylic Turn Indicators available from ODGW which are used by many gamers.  Back when the amendments were issued, gratis download pdf files were made available to registered owners of the GQ III rules with change pages and revised charts. Then in 2012, some small additional revisions were added.  Rather than making another amendment, I took some time and went back and compiled the amendments and new changes into a consolidated set which we made available as GQ 3.3 in 2012.  

 

If you are still using the original GQ III rules, you might want to consider getting a copy of GQ 3.3 which consolides everything in one package and brings you current.  Needless to say, the updated Turn Indicator graphics and changes to other charts and tables are included in this consolidated package.  Also, you will note on the ODGW website that there are a number of free download supplements available for other WW II navies. If you don't want to choose that course, send me your e-mail address and I will forwards a pdf of the updated Turn Indicators directly to you.

 

Fair winds,

 

LONNIE

 

 

[Ian Pudney]

Hi Lonnie,

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain when the turn circles changed. I'm old enough to remember playing the original GQ1 & GQ2 rules published by NAVWAR which had 45 degree turns.

 

Anyway, back to the current version 3.3, yes there are the revised eight two point ticks equal 180° ( 22.5° x 8 = 180°) included in the rules, but these are scaled for 100yds=1cm, and not the 100yds=0.5cm scale most people I know will play. All the play aids (turn circles & rulers) available to download from the ODGW Downloads section, have the original 18° x 10 = 180° turns. Attached are examples I checked again in Feb before starting this topic.

 

I had considered "shrinking" the new turn circle onto the original 100yds=0.5cm game aid rulers, but if you already have done this then that would be great.

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

 GQ3 WW2 Playaid Ruler 5cm=100yds Blue.pdf   1.14MB   5 downloads

 GQ3 WW2 Playaid Turn 5cm=100yds Blue.pdf   966.81KB   7 downloads

[Kenny Noe]

Ian,

 

There are .5cm=100yds game aids in both blue and teal colors in the GQ3 private download library.   You will need to register your copy here to gain access.   I've created a snapshot of the folder.   Hope this helps

 

 

[Jim O'Neil]

Kenny, 

I just spent 20 minutes trying to find he "New" 0.5cm turn indicators in Blue ... everything I touched was the old 10 increment turn indicator!  Maybe we could indicate the newer ones somehow?

Maybe my old eyes missed the obvious...

[Kenny Noe]

Jim,

 

Were you in the GQ3 Private Download Library?  I never said it was "new" just that I found the files in the DL folder.

[Jim O'Neil]

Kenny,

 

That's where I went, but every indicator iopened seemed to be the old style...

[Kenny Noe]

Jim, et al,

 

OK I see now.  Apologies to all, I'm a land lubber.

 

Yes the bonus file in the Private download library are all of the old "10-point" style.   These were created and uploaded by our dearly departed GQ3 enthusiast Gregory Kuntz.  I will discuss with Lonnie about removing these to avoid any future confusion.

 

I checked the GQ 3.3 and FAI full download and found the new "8-point" style full size turn gauge in cardstock in the back of the book.

 

Additionally, ODGW sells GQ turn gauges in hard blue acrylic that has etched markers just like the card stock ones in the rules.  These are also etched on the back with the torpedo marks.

 

There are 2 acrylic game accessories available, one full size and one half size.

 

(from the GQ 3.3 rules page xii [8])

• Ship Turn Indicators are also provided for
maneuvering ships. Just cut them out of the card
stock. More durable acrylic Ship Turn Indicators are
available directly through the ODGW website in two
sizes: One cm = 100 yds for 1:2400 – 1:4800 and one
cm = 200 yds for the smaller 1:6000 miniatures.

 

Unfortunately, no one has created a cardstock version of the smaller scale turn indicator.   The ODGW only has the half size turn indicator in acrylic at this time.

 

Now if some one would like to make one, we'd be glad to post it after Lonnie's review and approval.

 

Just let us know.

 

Thanks

---Kenny

[Jim O'Neil]

Kenny,

 

OK, so I am not crazy  ;-)   There turn indicators are in the GQ 3.3 download  and I have those ... my printer allowed me to reduce them by 50% as well, but it is awkward to move ships 5 knots at a time.

I can probably wriggle a usable  move and turn indicator out of the various bit's, but it wouldn't something anyone would want to pay money for.

[Kenny Noe]

Yea,  the shift from 10 to 8 point turns is where I got confused....   <grin>

[Jim O'Neil]

 Well here is an advanced 1st Grade fix for the near term untilm ODGW can get  a professionally done replacement.  Hope this is OK, Kenny, but if not, just pull the attachment.    01041301.PDF   235.42KB   9 downloads