17 replies to this topic

[John Ross]

So Gentlemen, how much longer is it going to be before GQ WW1 is ready to launch? What kind of problem would delay it for more than three weeks past it's orginal release date? Not that I'm complaining mind you, but it would be nice to be kept more up to date on what is going on. I ask since this set of rules is on my to buy list as soon as it comes out. Thanks.

[CinC]

Spock1,And we want you to buy it as soon as it comes out! Candidly and frankly, in the publishing industry there are a number of things that can delay a product's release for an indefinite period. In this case we are waiting on a printer to ascertain if they can provide us with suitable service. Another point that needs to be understood is that we are not a company with staff and assistants. This is as much a hobby for all of the staff of ODGW as it is for the gamers who buy our products. If a person responsible for a project has pressing issues in their work-related or personal lives, then those issues take precedence.I can assure you that everyone is doing the best they can to finish up Fleet Action Imminent, and that we hope to have it to you and to our retail sellers as soon as possible.Cordially,CinC

[Robert Henderson]

What are the chances it will be available for sale at Fall-In?

[Thomas Tuohy]

While I appreciate your troubles, "it'll be ready when it's ready" isn't much of an answer. I'm getting a shopping list ready for someone else to take to Fall-In -where I notice there are several FAI games being run- and I'd like to know how much money I should send along with it.One word - yes or no. That's not so much to ask, is it?LT

[CinC]

LT,The totally honest answer is — maybe. Last night the principal ODGW editor and the FAI author conferred and will try to have it ready by Fall In. The likelihood is that it will not be there, but we are making a major push. Both personal and professional obligations have conspired to sidetrack this project repeatedly. We are in galley proof, however, and hope to have a publisher's galley soon.Cordially,CinC

[CinC]

Here is an update on FAI. It has been compiled and is being prepped for its test print. All work has been signed off by author and editor, and now the final compilation work needs completion. We hope this internal process will be completed quickly, but cannot and will not make any guesses as to how much longer before it is available. Bear with us awhile longer. We are working on getting this product out the door.CinC

[Thomas Tuohy]

CinC wrote:

Here is an update on FAI. It has been compiled and is being prepped for its test print. All work has been signed off by author and editor, and now the final compilation work needs completion. We hope this internal process will be completed quickly, but cannot and will not make any guesses as to how much longer before it is available. Bear with us awhile longer. We are working on getting this product out the door.CinC

And another three weeks go by ...Christmas? New Years? 3rd quarter 2008?LT

[Jonathan Coulter]

Actually, I think in our last staff meeting Gregory indicated he wanted to time the release of FAI with the 100th anniversary of the start of WW1. I think that may be a TAD tight, but with a little work I think we can make it.Seriously, we've been fighting "technical difficulties". As frustrating as that may sound, it is indeed the truth. We've been creating PDF files for years without a hitch but the printer has been having trouble with our files. We think we've hit the right combination of settings to make this work.Presently, the files have been recompiled and are waiting for the editor to make sure everything is in the proper order. Once we have his blessing, the files will be forwarded to the printer. This will happen today.The next step is to get a Press Proof from the printer to verify everything is now in sync with their equipment and the final product is to our specifications. Assuming everything is up to snuff, the final step is to get the bugger printed.Time frame? Ain't gonna give you one, sorry. We've thought several times now we've had everything ready to go and something jumped up and slapped us around a bit. You'll just have to be patient a bit longer. Frustrating isn't it? But we're just as frustrated. But once it's done you'll be very happy with it. We want it to be right. YOU want it to be right. A little more time is needed, but it WILL be right.Enjoy!

[Klebert Hall]

Don't sweat it folks. The people who are confused by the delays have no understanding of the gaming industry.It isn't as easy as it looks, and it generally has to be done with a skeleton crew, at best.-Kle.

[Thomas Tuohy]

In fact, I have had some experience with the production end of the gaming industry and I have a very good idea of how frustrating it can be. What I find confusing is the constant repetition of a particular series of events -editor has passed on it, compilation needs doing, waiting for proofs- as being imminent in messages that are weeks apart. Add to that the fact that at least one player in an FAI game at Fall-In (which took place some 2-1/2 months after the original release date) indicated some problems with the tables, indicating that the rules were still not entirely ready for publication, and I hope you'll excuse my increasing skepticism.LT

[Bob Benge]

Skeleton crew? That is over estimating our current strength right now.PDFs? This is the first time that the GQ guys have attempted creating PDF files for print, incredible as this may seem. The original GQIII was prepped for print by another person outside the company who was not available to them for FAI. Also the fact that our company resides in Virginia, the GQ III guys are in California and the printer is in Wisconsin, and, suffice it to say, while email may be lightning fast, responses and lost emails are not.Familiar with the gaming industry? Maybe with bigger companies that have full time jobs doing precisely this. Not the 4-6 guys trying to do this in what spare time their families and full-time paying jobs will afford them.Know that we are gaining nothing by sitting on a product that could be selling right now. Know also that there were some problems that needed ironing out and that doesn't happen overnight, especially with us. :) We are doing our level best to get this out the door and get it right.No excuses are being made here. I am just passing on the facts.The product will be out, so please be a little more patient. ;)

[Thomas Tuohy]

Hmmm ... my familiarity comes from two game designers in Maryland, a one-and-a-half-man publishing operation in California, and a printer in Hong Kong, who ultimately died in the middle of a project. Big company? Not by a long shot.I didn't mean to be quite so confrontational in my last message but being condescended to (not by you guys) really gets my back up. LT

[Klebert Hall]

I wasn't condescending to you, chief - I wasn't even talking to you.The intent of my post was to provide some feedback to the OGDW people, indicating that just because most of what they hear on this subject consists of complaints, doesn't mean that some part of the 'community' isn't sympathetic.In any case, apologies for any offense taken, it wasn't intended.-Kle.

[DAVID THORNLEY]

The problem is not the delays, although they are seeming rather excessive, as the conflicting information we're getting.We have been told that the rules were printer-ready, then that they weren't. The original reason given was that the printer was delaying, and now we're told one problem was that the producers had no experience with making PDF files. There have been hints dropped that the rules weren't actually ready.Just tell us the truth, and we'll be understanding. If it's taking longer than expected to get the rules into final shape, well, anybody who hung in for GQIII is obviously willing to be patient. If there's technical problems, fine, let us know. Just be straight with us. Most of us know that missing a deadline by four to six months (or much more) is not unheard of in this business, but we would like to have the best idea you can give us, and we would not like to be told something implying shipping fairly fast and then be told something entirely different.If the rules are in final form, and you can produce PDFs (I don't know what software you're using to format the rules, but most applicable packages can print to PDF almost trivially), you could offer the rules for sale and the PDFs for download, as was done for GQIII. That made a lot of people feel better about printer delays, and got some money into the right hands earlier. We expected you guys to have problems. There's no harm in admitting the problems that are going on. If you'd put something in the forums every other week or so saying what the current difficulties are, that'd be great. Don't give us the feeling that you're covering up.

[Bob Benge]

This may sound funny, but we have actually been posting the truth and did not attempt to mislead anyone on the product release. Yes, the info has seemed to be conflicting at times, but I believe that the GQ3 guys may be a little guilty of hopes getting in the way of realities. Suffice it to say, it seems as though the game gods were conspiring against them. It also seems that maybe we, as a company, may have given out too much info which may have led to some false sense of completion and some confusion. We will be tempering product release info in the future to provide less confusion and better understanding of what is going on. Thanks for your input on this. :)

[Jonathan Coulter]

Ah, the truth. The problem with the truth is there are always those who won't believe it, or choose not to. In fact, the truth has already been told. May seem like a screwy chain of events, but the truth none-the-less.When we published GQ3 the printer assured us we'd have delivery by our target date. Turns out the project was a lot bigger than they anticipated, hence the delay.FAI has had an entirely different set of delays. The primary delay was getting the communication process established with our printer. They finally brought someone on board full time and that person wound up being our point-of-contact. Once that happened, we were able to proceed and the first step was to get all our initial costs in front of us. This isn't as simple as it may seem and to keep the selling price in the range we wanted required review of how various components would be printed. Getting the final cost and layout of the product takes time.As for the rules not actually being ready, that isn't true. I don't actually play GQ3 or FAI (I play with tanks, not boats) but I do believe the delay was used to tweak a few things. Nothing that would have prevented the book from being published but it made sense to make use of the delay. Why not just say so? We are always looking at ways to improve our rules. All good game companies do. Sometime changes are made via updates, new releases, supplements, or never implemented at all. We're simply not going to make all this public nor does it need to be.And yes, our folks on the West coast were having trouble getting the PDF files made. As was already stated, our GQ3 source for this task was not available. I have always made the PFDs in the past for the non-GQ stuff but I wasn't available to do this either. So the guys out West did the best they could but nothing seemed to work for the printer. My time finally freed up and I was able to get the PDFs made so they worked with the printer's equipment.So the truth has already been told. Maybe not as detailed as above, but it has been told. There is a news item on the main page called "FAI ... two steps closer" that we've been using to keep everyone up-to-date.Our mistake was putting a release date on this in the first place. Those of us who have been around long enough know better than to do that. Our GQ3 boys know that now too.So when will FAI be published? I don't know and I won't predict. Keep watching the main page and as news is available, I'll posted it there.

[Jonathan Coulter]

thornley wrote:

If the rules are in final form, and you can produce PDFs (I don't know what software you're using to format the rules, but most applicable packages can print to PDF almost trivially), you could offer the rules for sale and the PDFs for download, as was done for GQIII. That made a lot of people feel better about printer delays, and got some money into the right hands earlier.

Oops, sorry ... forgot to address this.Yes, MSTurd, WordPerfect, and many others can product PDFs "trivially". But we're not dealing with a personal home printer. Getting things to work with a press isn't quite as trivial ... especially when you're working with older equipment. ;) Releasing PDFs online in advance as we did for GQ3 was discussed. We had issues with stores and distributors when we did that and decided to avoid that this time around by not offering pre-orders. A good example of not being able to make everyone happy.

[DAVID THORNLEY]

Thank you for the prompt and helpful replies.It isn't a matter of not believing a truth (although I'd have at least a little trouble believing that a large set of minis rules went out exactly on schedule, even if it was true), but of seeing things that at least look like contradictions. Thank you for sorting it all out.I'm sorry you aren't making the PDFs available, but at least it's nice to know why, and how that relates to the progress of the rules. You can't please everybody, and in this particular case you chose not to please me personally as opposed to other people. No problem there.So, good luck on getting this out, so some of us can buy it.I'll see if I can work through the WWII ships I'm painting and get some WWI ships painted before the rules actually come out.