9 replies to this topic

[William MacGillivray]

With the Amendment 1 torpedo rules, are Japanese 21" torpedoes treated any differently from the early 24" torpedoes (i.e. not the Type 23 Long Lance)?All other nations halve the number of hull hits with their 'lighter' torpedoes but they are all 18" (or 17.7" or 16") and the rules specifically say that it is 18" torpedoes that have these half-effect hull hits.In the original rules, all light torpedoes used a 'left shift' on the Mine & Torpedo Damage table, including the Japanese 21" torpedo.However, the Japanese chart for Amendment 1 says 'Aerial & 18" ½ Hull hits', exatly the same as all other nations (including the Italians who had 17.7" and French with 16" torpedoes, not 18"). Presumably this is to make the chart the same for all nations as you now use the Target's chart rather than the Firer's.Amendment 1 rule 1.4.7 says

Hull damage is further halved for smaller warhead aerial and 18” torpedo hits. Other damage remains as listed.

I am presuming the intent is for this to apply equally to Italian 17.7" and French 16" torpedoes, however I am not sure if this is intended for the Japanese 21" torpedoes.

[Martin Jerred]

No 21" is the 'standard' for all navies (yes 18" 'old' TT is also 17.7" or 16" or whatever), so IJN 21" are black numbers on a white circle not a white number on a black circleNote only the 24" 'Long Lance' oxygen fuelled TT is subject to the Fire effect on the damage tablecheersZippee

[William MacGillivray]

But 21" is _not_ standard for the IJN.The IJN uses _Three_ types of surface torpedo: the 21" (denoted on the Ship Logs by a black circle with white number, not as you suggest above), the early 24" (these _are_ white circle, black number) and the Long Lance 24" (Red circle & number).What I want to know is if the 21" and old 24" are now treated _exactly_ the same, or if the 21" is less effective than the old 24" torpedo (as it was before the Amendment 1 changes)

[Cpt M]

What I want to know is if the 21" and old 24" are now treated _exactly_ the same, or if the 21" is less effective than the old 24" torpedo (as it was before the Amendment 1 changes)

The old 24" used by the IJN (the Type 90) had a warhead very similiar in size to the standard 21" used by other nations (827lbs vs. 805lbs for the RN Mk VIII and 825lbs for the USN Mk 15). Consequently, I would consider the Type 90 to be the same (for effect) as the other nations 21". The upward adjustment would be only for the IJN Type 93.

[William MacGillivray]

Coastal wrote:

Consequently, I would consider the Type 90 to be the same (for effect) as the other nations 21". The upward adjustment would be only for the IJN Type 93.

Thanks, but what I'm actually asking is if there would be the same downward adjustment for Japanese 21 inch torpedoes as for other nations' 18 inch torpedoes (as there was before amendment 1).

[Cpt M]

Thanks, but what I'm actually asking is if there would be the same downward adjustment for Japanese 21 inch torpedoes as for other nations' 18 inch torpedoes (as there was before amendment 1).

Since the IJN's older, WWI period 21" torpedoes carried a warhead roughly the same in weight as other nations 18" torpedoes, I would apply the downward adjustment to them. Keep in mind, the new torpedo damage table is designed as a common, across the board table. The key differential is warhead size, not neccessarily the diameter of the torpedo.

[William MacGillivray]

So to summarise, for _all_ nations, if the torpedoes are from a 'white on black' mount (or air launched) then hull damage is halved.By the way if the table result is an odd number of hull boxes, would this halving be rounded up or down to a whole number of boxes or result in a box half damaged? What about if you get an odd quarter or three-quarters (if you have to halve twice because a 'light' torpedo hits a BB at shallow depth)?

[Cpt M]

So to summarise, for _all_ nations, if the torpedoes are from a 'white on black' mount (or air launched) then hull damage is halved.

Yes, if the torpedo is indicated on the ship log as 'white on black' then the hull damage is halved. 'Black on white' are unmodified and the IJN Type 93 ('red on white') get the upward adjustment.

By the way if the table result is an odd number of hull boxes, would this halving be rounded up or down to a whole number of boxes or result in a box half damaged? What about if you get an odd quarter or three-quarters (if you have to halve twice because a 'light' torpedo hits a BB at shallow depth)?

Half hull box results are marked as half hull boxes (one slash). For the quarter or three quarter results, my group rounds down to the closest half (or full) hull box (it's faster that way). Alternatively, you can round up or round down based on a die roll: even result, round up; odd result, round down (but that does slow things down somewhat).

[William MacGillivray]

Coastal wrote:

So to summarise, for _all_ nations, if the torpedoes are from a 'white on black' mount (or air launched) then hull damage is halved.

Yes, if the torpedo is indicated on the ship log as 'white on black' then the hull damage is halved. 'Black on white' are unmodified and the IJN Type 93 ('red on white') get the upward adjustment.

In the absence of anything to the contrary though, I take it that optional rule 1.4.11 regarding Allied Torpex warheads still results in a column shift on the table, rather than any doubling of hull damage.

[Cpt M]

In the absence of anything to the contrary though, I take it that optional rule 1.4.11 regarding Allied Torpex warheads still results in a column shift on the table, rather than any doubling of hull damage.

Yes.