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Trying to understand UE....


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#1 Brian Weathersby

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 08:56 AM

I've been reading through FAI, and I am finding the entire concept of Unit Engineering a bit unclear. That is, I understand the concept, but not exactly how it works in the game. The rules are quite specific that one Engineering critical drops a ship to the yellow shaded speed, and a second causes the target to lose all power until one crit is repaired. However, the rules then go on to say, "...many smaller warships have only one engine room, signified by the shaded "one ER" notation to the right of their hull boxes. These lose all power after one Engineering Hit." From looking through the ship data sheets, none of the ships seem to have the 'one ER' notation. So, should this be taken to mean that ships without UE have the 'one hit=lose all power' rule applied to them, while UE ships use the 2 crit rule? Also, is this something that is explained more clearly in the full GQ3 rule set?On a related note, I am considering getting GQ3 for the campaign rules and some other data. However, I have the original GQ I and II from way back when, and I am wondering if the new campaign rules are significantly different from the older ones. It is, after all, quite an investment for one or two sections in a period that I am not as interested in (unless, of course, the interwar 'never were' ships are in there).If I sound a bit put out, I don't mean to; these new rules are FAR better than the old ones, IMHO. They have succeeded in reigniting my WWI naval interest, which I had given up for AOS and other stuff some time back. I do appreciate the work that has gone into them, and look forward to any replies that the community might have.Thanks,BWWPS: Bring on the USN! I want to be able to play with my beloved USS Texas, and those other minor ships as well. :)

#2 Cpt M

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 09:28 AM

I've been reading through FAI, and I am finding the entire concept of Unit Engineering a bit unclear. That is, I understand the concept, but not exactly how it works in the game. The rules are quite specific that one Engineering critical drops a ship to the yellow shaded speed, and a second causes the target to lose all power until one crit is repaired. However, the rules then go on to say, "...many smaller warships have only one engine room, signified by the shaded "one ER" notation to the right of their hull boxes. These lose all power after one Engineering Hit." From looking through the ship data sheets, none of the ships seem to have the 'one ER' notation. So, should this be taken to mean that ships without UE have the 'one hit=lose all power' rule applied to them, while UE ships use the 2 crit rule? Also, is this something that is explained more clearly in the full GQ3 rule set?

The effects for 'Unit Engineering' appear as an optional rule in GQ3. To quote:1.7.6 Unit Engineering SpacesThe advent of advanced high-pressure boilers in the 1930senabled warship designers to alternate boiler room and engineroom spaces en echelon to prevent a single hit from disablingthe entire power plant. When a ship without unit engineeringreceives a bomb, mine or torpedo Engineering hit, roll the D12again. An ODD result disables both ENGINEERING boxes,leaving the target without power until repaired.Unit engineering is indicated by “UE” listed in italics to theright of the Hull boxes on Ship Logs. Ships without unit engineeringlack this. All capital ships (BA – BC) are classified as havingunit engineering because their size provides enoughsub division in their engineering spaces to prevent a single hitfrom disabling the entire engineering plant.What this optional rule represents is that ships with their engineering plant separated were less prone to catastrophic damage. This optional rule (in fact, all the optional rules) are under Section 5 of GQ3. For consistency, the designations were carried over to FAI (whiich is, afterall, an extension of GQ3). To be honest, at least for my group, we haven't used this rule in any of our games (GQ3 or FAI).Now, about the 'one ER': Most (if not all) merchant ships, and warships based on merchant ships, were normally constructed with a single, large engineering space. So a single Engineering hit will cause the ship to lose all power, as opposed to the normal damage of dropping speed to the yellow hull box (with a second hit causing loss of all power with speed dropping to zero). Only those ships marked 'one ER' would lose all power from one hit. And, yes, there are no such ships in the the ship logs for FAI since no merchant were included (however, there are a bunch in GQ3).

On a related note, I am considering getting GQ3 for the campaign rules and some other data. However, I have the original GQ I and II from way back when, and I am wondering if the new campaign rules are significantly different from the older ones. It is, after all, quite an investment for one or two sections in a period that I am not as interested in (unless, of course, the interwar 'never were' ships are in there).

Well, you kinda put me in hard spot. On one hand I could say 'Of course you need to buy GQ3!' (and would you expect otherwise?). But, to be honest, the campaign rules in GQ3 are more fully developed then those in GQ1/2. That being said, with a little massaging of the rules on your part, the GQ1/2 campaign rules should work fine. (And the interwar 'never were' did not make it into GQ3).

If I sound a bit put out, I don't mean to; these new rules are FAR better than the old ones, IMHO. They have succeeded in reigniting my WWI naval interest, which I had given up for AOS and other stuff some time back. I do appreciate the work that has gone into them, and look forward to any replies that the community might have.

Thank you for the kind words; they are appreciated. BTW, I was in the same boat; my interest in WWII had waned until I came across GQ3. Now, I'm doing both WWI and WWII.

PS: Bring on the USN! I want to be able to play with my beloved USS Texas, and those other minor ships as well.

In the works! As they say, 'Watch this Space'!

#3 Brian Weathersby

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 07:34 PM

Now THAT is a complete explanation, and I thank you very much for it. As optional rules go, it is pretty simple (which I prefer for optional rules), but of limited utility, I think. Of course, by limited utility I mean that it won't help my big ships shoot up those pesky torpedo boats any more quickly....:)

Well, you kinda put me in hard spot.

That's true, and I apologize for that. Upon reflection, it wasn't too smart of me to come to a manufacturer's website and ask, in effect, "should I buy your new rules?" Given what I want them for, I suspect that the downloadable version would do just fine. As far as massaging rules, I probably could do that since I have all the AP games, and Jutland by AH. However, it's always good to have more sets of rules since it has been 30 years since GQ I&II were written, and even longer for Jutland.

there are no such ships in the the ship logs for FAI since no merchant were included (however, there are a bunch in GQ3).

I suspect that the merchant data from GQ3 would work just fine for WWI, since, as I understand it, there was not any great evolution of merchant ships between the wars, except for passenger liners. Clearly, I'm talking myself into buying the GQ3 rules as well, darn you to heck ODGW! :laugh:

Now, I'm doing both WWI and WWII.

NNNNOOOOO!!!!!! Must resist...call...of darkside.... Maybe, if I tell the missus how cheap 1/6000 is relatively speaking... and easy to paint quickly... AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!

#4 Cpt M

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 09:34 PM

I suspect that the merchant data from GQ3 would work just fine for WWI, since, as I understand it, there was not any great evolution of merchant ships between the wars, except for passenger liners.

Haven't firmed it up yet, but there might be a sheet of WWI period merchants with the supplement (what would WWI be without the Lusitania and Mauritania?)

NNNNOOOOO!!!!!! Must resist...call...of darkside.... Maybe, if I tell the missus how cheap 1/6000 is relatively speaking... and easy to paint quickly... AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!

Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated....(As I mix my SciFi metaphors!) LOL!:)

#5 Brian Weathersby

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 10:11 PM

Resistance is futile, you will be assimulated....(As I mix my SciFi _meta_phors!) LOL!

Hmmmm, I see a tagline coming out of this. Maybe something like:RESISTANCE IS FUTILE; WE HAVE SMALL SCALE SHIPS!!And, of course it would have to be all caps, because everyone knows that Vogons are always shouting.




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