29 replies to this topic

[Kenny Noe]

Please submit your opinion:Would you rather see one honking big databook (circa 50.00) with all Post WWII vehicles or several (20.00ish) databooks broken into periods?Which periods?Thanks ---Kenny

[Joel Tompkins]

I'd really only be interested in Cold War stuff ... So, to save money I'd have to vote for period books.

[Kenny Noe]

joel wrote:

I'd really only be interested in Cold War stuff ... So, to save money I'd have to vote for period books.

Thanks Joel... However you do realize the "Cold War" spanned 45 years!! (1945 - 1990) How about 2 Cold War Books? one Early CW (45-69) and one Late CW (70-90)? There is already in the wings to be printed a Korean War Databook.For period databooks I'm considering the following:KoreaArab-Israel (Early Wars 48-56)Arab-Israel (Later Wars 67-82)Cold War (Early Years 45-69)VietnamOther HotSpots (see below)Cold War (Later Years 70-90)Desert Storm [GWII]ChechneyaOp Enduring Freedom and Op Iraqi Feedom [GWIII]Other HotSpots could have the following:French/ Indo-China WarAngolaFalkland IslandsEthiopia/EritreaLybia/EgyptPanamaIran/Iraq [GWI]?

Post edited by: knoe, at: 2005/11/29 03:56

[Kenny Noe]

duplicate

Post edited by: knoe, at: 2005/11/28 11:14

[Joel Tompkins]

Yea, yea; I know. :pinch: Let me elucidate ... later years cold war.

[Jon Palmer]

Same for me as well, later cold-war years is the most interesting 1970-1989Jon P:)

[Sean King]

I like the periods to and the ones you have listed sound great to me.

[Jonathan Brock]

I'm open either way.I'd just prefer that if you released seperate books, they'd all be available at the same time.

[Mark 1]

My preference would also be for seperate books, although a special "collected Modern Databooks" deal would be nice as well.Late Cold War would be my first interest. Always been a fascination of mine.(I seem to recall some late cold war Steel Panthers WW3 PBEM games with a certain fellow named Kenny who was interested in micro-armor about 7 or 8 years ago ... ? ;) )I might also suggest an India/Pakistani data/scenarios book, and while it is not obvious to me from the titles, something in there that contains modern Chinese forces would be nice. GHQ is expanding their line to include several new modern Chinese items this year.It is hard to judge from the titles of the books where to find data for modern USMC, US Airborne, or French FAR intervention forces. Those would go quite well with many of the African "hotspots". -Mark 1

[James McCormack]

I'd have to vote for period books, as im only interested in late 80's and Arab-Isreal wars.

[Mark 1]

I know this thread has been quiet for a while ... but there are many MP users, like me, who really do hope to see a modern data book or two during our lifetimes. So I thought I might see if the discussion can be re-started.I have been looking over several of the other discussion threads on this subject, and I have the impression that the effort of creating modern data books has been started several times, and perhaps seen some progress over the years, yet has eluded completion. I am thinking that there may even already be a fair bit of data that has been collected by this process.If indeed there has been some work done, but the task itself eludes completion, then we might look at why it is eluding completion, and consider how to make it easier to complete. I expect, with no real knowledge from inside the ODGW effort, that the modern era is just so large of a span of time, with so many possible combattants, and so much complexity from the mix of technologies over time, that each effort at producing a modern data book has been too large of a task for the individuals involved, and that those who have tried have become frustrated with the effort and wandered off to other, more manageable work. Perhaps the ambitions of the task are beyond the means of completion? Or, as it has been said in simpler terms -- sometimes better is the enemy of good enough.Which brings me back to the topic of this thread. I think that the shortest route to completion of modern data books will be to divide the timeframe and arenas of conflict, and build the books one upon another. In this way a base of work can be a manageable task which might be completed in a reasonable timeframe, and then each addition can also be more manageable. Much as the MP Core Rules are built-upon by advanced and optional rules.I suggest a Core Post-War book, to cover 1945 to 1975. The 1975 cut-off date is not cast in concrete in my thinking. Maybe a bit earlier -- say 1970 or so -- would also be a good idea. The notion is to find the cut-off point which reduces the added complexity of the new technologies of the modern era -- such as integrated fire controls, battlefield management/tactical computers, thermal imagers, and reactive armor. It would be focussed on the major NATO v. Warsaw Pact Cold War adversaries -- US, UK, France, Germany, Soviet Union. Nothing more. This to be followed by a Core Modern book, to cover 1975 to 2008. It would focus on the major NATO countries -- US, UK, France, Germany, Soviet Union/Russia. Nothing more. This would add the new technologies.An add-on could cover the Arab-Israeli Conflicts from 1948 to 2008, adding Israeli and Arab equipment that is not already covered in the two core modern books.A Korean War add-on would cover only those particular items of kit not already found in the core early modern book, and include any special considerations -- troop quality ratings, organizations, etc -- of the armies involved.An Indo-Pak add-on would cover the particulars of that conflict from 1945 to 2008.A Lesser European Armies book could then add other interesting armies -- Italy, Greece, Turkey, the Benelux and Scandinavian forces, Poland, Hungary, Romania, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, etc. It could even add Ukraine, Byelorussia, the Baltic states etc. Even though this book would cover many countries, the amount of original equipment or even significant modifications used by each is relatively small, so this book might stretch from post-war to modern.I would seperate the Iraq and Afganistan Wars into yet another add-in, putting in whatever modern kit and organizational/operational information is needed to bolster the Core Modern book -- even if much of that information was also scattered about in the Arab-Israeli and Lesser European books.I also like the idea of a Far East book adding China, North Korea, Japan, and Taiwan. Given the smaller number of countries and paucity of original equipment in the early post-war period, this book might also stretch to cover the whole period from post-war to modern.So also a South East Asia book might consolidate the equipment from the several other books and add the relatively few unique pieces used in the wars of that region, and so cover the span from post-war to modern.As I put it together it is 9 or 10 different data books. That looks like a lot. But each one is more manageable in size, and so progress can be turned into published results, rather than unpublished partial results. That way I can buy the books as they come out, since providing more of my money to ODGW is one of my great ambitions in life! And then I could get some of those M48s, M60s, M113s, T-62s, T-80s, BTR-60s and BMPs back onto my gaming boards after their 10+ year hiatus!And THAT actually IS an ambition of mine.-Mark 1

[Bob Benge]

Hey Mark,We liked you ideas so much that we are adopting it or rather we already adopted it. Believe it or not we are working on a Modern Data Book at this time. It is the Arab/Israeli Wars and Kenny Noe is heading up this task. To give you some idea of what is being faced here, the complexity of getting data for the modern equipment has been a bear in its enormity and how to present this data to our gamers. One of the problems is the number of types of rounds a tank gun now has and how we are presenting this data in the data book to make it as easy as possible to understand. SAM missiles is another issue that is being tackled. We have some data started on a reprise of the the old Korean War Data Book which will be done to the WW2 and prior Data Books. I had some designs on doing the Sino-Vietnamese Wars Data Book also, but I am not sure when I can kick that one off.Modern has always been in our plans and we have had issues getting this out to everyone much to my dismay. But we had and are still having (to a small degree anyway) some issues to work out. We had to revamp the armor and penetration calculations due to the higher power of guns and higher density and technology of armor. We have to make some minor adjustments to the BPV calculations to keep them in line. Our cut-off for the modern data will be after the Korean War as WW2 technology is predominant for the Korean War. I would truly define Modern in terms of MP as the advent of the anti-tank missile on the battlefield. As Kenny is the Modern guy I hope that he will respond to your post here and maybe give a little more insight to MP2 Modern. I to hope that you will be able to dust off the M48s, M60s, M113s, T-62s, T-80s, BTR-60s and BMPs and get them back into service. :)

[Kenny Noe]

Dunno what more I can add other than to say there are multiple modern databooks in the works.Bob has an interest in Southeast Asia and I'm working on the Arab/Israeli Wars book.The biggest block for me now is trying to gather TOE. If anyone is interested in helping gather TOE for various Arab Countries please PM me offline, we'll discuss further.Regards,--Kenny

[Andrew B. Johnson]

Well it has been several years since I posted here. I am glad you are working on the modern books anf look forward to the books.

[Henning]

Hi ODGW Team !I'll discovered your Rules the last Months by playing "Mein Panzer" with some Friends in WW2 Setting and ill love it ! In my Opinion its the best TT Game i'll ever played.Theres just one Question that stops me ordering the Books right now. Will there be any Modern Databooks or not ? WW2 is a fantastic Setting and it keeps great possibilities, but i'm more interested in playing Modern Combat (Late Cold War or Gulf Wars), so im Looking for Datasheets for this Periods.If there will be no Modern Databooks (The last Post in this Board is more then a Year old), is it possible to get help from you to develop Datasheets for the missing Vehicles and Weapons ? May be there is a Formula to bring realistic Stats to a Mein Panzer Datasheet ? Dont get me wrong, i'm not afraid to develop my total own Datasheets, but im sure the Result will be better, with some help.greats from Germany Mantikor

[Bob Benge]

Yes there will be modern data books. they may take more time to turn out as we have had to do some major rules writing to accompany the new data. Right now, the Arab/Israeli Wars Data Book is in writing.

[Jonathan Brock]

To be honest, I really don't care.I'd love to use the MP base for modern day rules, but have little interest in anything other than a 1980's hypothetical WW3 sort of thing (or the first Gulf War). Release them seperate as periods and I'll buy them or hold and have them all in one honking big book, it's the same to me.I like the game and want to support it, so I'll buy regardless.And yeah, I'd really love to use the rules for Hammer's Slammers, but I've over-stayed my welcome. :)

[John Ross]

You know, it has been amost 65 years since the end of WWII. That is a lot of time to cover in one book, with all the changes that have taken place since then. Remember that there was just over 20 years between WWI and WWII, so I would say several books covering different times. Say the Cold War time frame and the post Cold War time frame. Basically I say this because of the fact that the Cold War was an East/West confrontion with all the proxy wars included, while the post Cold War has turned into a free for all with every group, country, and/or region having a go at settling some old scores, and in some cases, some very old scores buried/held back by the Cold War itself. Then, of couse, there is the fact that we have passed from the 20th Century into the 21 Century and the whole reshaping of the World Order around the World. Then there is the change in technology through out this time frame to also consider. Just my humble opion, but I believe it merits a look into splitting the time up into more managable/workable groupings. ;) Thanks, Spock1

[Dan Lewis]

I'm only interested in Arab-Israeli

[Kevin Rohrer]

Books by topic seem best: Cold War, AIW, etc.I am definitely interested in getting these two, plus possibly others.