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Aerial torpedo attack example?


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#1 confusedgamer

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 11:52 PM

Is there a worked example of how to do this?  I'm having a terrible time piecing the rules together with the play sequence.

 

 

In the final air phase when the torpedos are dropped, I'm pretty confused about how to go about it.  I'll ask my questions one at a time for the sake of clarity (I hope).

 

It says you calculate the torpedo drop distance based on the AA.  How do you calculate the AA (from what position of the planes) for this?

 

Thanks.



#2 Dave Franklin

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 07:01 PM

Sorry, I'd try to help, but I never play the Tactical Air Rules.



#3 W. Clark

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 08:06 PM

There are two methods for determining aerial torpedo attacks' the normal air rules and campaign air rules. The campaign air rules are much simpler and that is what I use (because I really detest air power and I try to avoid it as much as possible). 

 

​In the campaign rules you roll a D12 for each attacking flight (that has survived engagement with CAP and AA) and index the result on your torpedo firing chart. Don't forget evasion (if applicable and any other modifiers such as DIW). If you roll what you need its a hit. Its that simple. You need to check up on anvil attacks and what not (I'm not familiar, because I almost always play the US in 42 and such sophistication is not for us). Heck, I've never used the figure four rules for that matter.

 

In any case good luck and good hunting 



#4 Frank

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:46 AM

In the tactical (normal) rules, a full scale attack coordinated attack from one US carrier could add about twenty more counters to the playing area. Not counting CAP opposing them. For best results, you would probably need one player for each squadron. This is probably the main reason people dislike adding airpower to a tactical game.

 

I read John Lundstrum's "First Team" it is fascinating. The US carrier captain had three choices when ordering and attack. Send out each squadron and hope for the best. (Fastest) Send them out and try to gather them together enroute. Sometimes groups couldn't find each other. Launch a coordinated attack. Longest range planes launch first, shortest last. Between the added spotting and time to gather up the flock, this is very time consuming. The Yorktown dive bombers and torpedo planes actually tried for a coordinated attack at Midway. Thwarted by the high speed of the Hiryu and Soryu, and the very low speed of the Devastator. I think the Devastator was too slow to pull off an anvil attack under opposition. The Japanese always tried for it. When it worked, it could be devastating. I play solo. Unfortunately,normal rules are too complex for me. Campaign rules.



#5 Lonnie Gill

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 06:35 PM

G' Day "Confused Gamer",

 

The aerial torpedo rules are fairly simple.  As Lt. Clark mentioned, the campaign alternative is easy and appeals to many who don't want to get involved with aircraft or expend a lot of game time on them.  But, others find air strikes can be pretty interesting as well as Frank commented.  There are some rather intriguing decisions to be made by both the attacking and defending gamer.  So, a tactical alternative was also provided for those who want the additional detail.

 

In the tactical approach, once aerial combat (if any) is resolved, the target commander lays out his ships in formation and the attacker places the attacking TB flights in the sector(s) they are attacking from at more than 6ooo yds (maximum AA range) and start to close using the "TB Max speed" listed beneath the Torpedo Bomber DROP table on Chart 17.  AA fire is then resolved using the TB row of the ANTI-AIRCRAFT CRT by totaling the AA factors from the ships allotted to the sector per Section 2.9.4 (page 2-8).  In most cases the TB flights penetrate close enough to attack in one Air Phase which means they are attacked by the ships's Close Range AA factors.  A few slow biplane TBs may require two or more Air Phases, with one being exposed to Long Range AA fire.  [The attacking flight commanders need to plan ahead and maneuver to minimize the AA fire they must endure.  And, the target commanders have some time to alter formation or bearing as the TBs close each Air Phase (one-third of a Game Turn) getting ready for the final attack run.  Hence, tactical decisions for both sides.]  The total AA fire in a sector is also used to determine which column to use on the Torpedo Bomber DROP table on Chart 17 per Section 2.11 (page 2-11).  Cast a D12 for each surviving flight to determine how close it gets to the intended target before its TBs drop and position a Velcro strip torpedo launch marker (represents three torpedoes from the flight) at that range.  Thereafter, the aircraft maneuver to exit and escape further AA fire while the ships and torpedoes are moved to resolve torpedo attacks normally per Section 2.11.2 (page 2-11).  

 

You will find it's harder than it looks to make a good attack and learn the value of "anvil attacks."   The tactical approach provides some interesting challenges for both sides and doesn't take more than the equivalent of a GT or two to resolve once you are familiar with it .  A couple of extra steps, but not all that hard.  It will also help you to better appreciate what the pilots and ship captains had to decide and do.  Give it a try; it can be intriguing.

 

LONNIE



#6 glenn_simpson

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 07:23 PM

What should I do to simulate He111 torpedo bombers, which carried two torpedoes each?  Roll once for each flight on the 6 torps column or roll twice on the 3 torps column?  Makes a difference statistically.



#7 Dave Franklin

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 08:28 AM

Interesting question Glenn.  The first thing I would try to ascertain is how often they actually carried two torpedoes operationally?  If the answer is not very often (e.g. only at fairly short range), then problem solved - assume they are only carrying one.  If it appears they really did typically carry two operationally, the next thing I would try to research is how they typically employed them?  Would they typically drop both on one attack run (one pass and haul ass...), or would they typically make two attack runs?  Of course, the answer to this second question could have several inputs - e.g. at close to the extent of their range, they might only make one run due to fuel considerations, and if there was a CAP present, they might only make one run.

 

As I mentioned above, I don't play the Tactical Air Rules.  I play the Campaign Air Rules (I usually use a variant I came up with that uses an "Air/Surface Tactical Display" I "borrowed" from the old SPI board game War in the Pacific).  So what would I do, if I determined it was plausible for them to launch an attack carrying two torpedoes?  If there was no CAP, and they were not range constrained, I would allow the survivors of the first run to make a second run, but they would get attacked by AA again the second run.  In this case, the Torpedo Bomber table on Chart 9I WWII Campaign Air Ops can be used as is.

 

In the case where they are going to drop both torps on one run, I'd probably do one of the following:

  1. Just have each flight roll twice on the Torpedo Bomber table, or
  2. Perhaps have each flight roll once on the Torpedo Bomber table for the first torp, and assume the second torp result is the die result +1.

Frankly, I'm not 100% sure which way I'd go, but I would probably lean to #2, as this would make the player weigh the ramifications - suffer two AA attacks, or make one run but the second torp will have a bad modifier...

 

Dave



#8 glenn_simpson

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 06:28 AM

Thanks. I am trying to simulate the Arctic convoys of 1942-3. The German air attacks on the convoys to Russia used the so-called “golden comb” technique - all the He111s flew in a single line and released all their torpedoes at once towards the side of the allied convoy - 60 or more torpedoes heading towards a convoy 10 columns wide and 6 ships deep. Perhaps it is better to use the campaign rules for such a melee!




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