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Range and "To-Hit" for Direct Fire OM values


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#1 acctingman69

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Posted 28 November 2022 - 06:16 PM

I'm trying to wrap my head around how the effective range of a gun is factored into the "to-hit" number?

 

A 2pdr gun has crappy punching power at anything over 400-500 yds, where a German 75mm has great killing power at that distance.

 

Looking at a Matilda II with a 2pdr firing at a Pz IVH at a range of 26" (Troop Quality being 12 across the board)

 

Matilda moves so it's OM2 is a -8

Range being 26" is a -5

Pz IVH hasn't moved +0

Gun is <57mm -2

 

So, that's 12-8-5-2 = -3

 

Only way the Matilda hits at that range is rolling a 1

 

PzIVH moves so it's OM2 is a -3

Range at 26" is a -5

Matilda II hasn't moved +0

 

So, that's 12-3-5 = 4

 

So, lets move that Matilda up to 6" away from the Pz IV

 

So, now it's 12-8+5+0-2 = 7

 

PZIVH would be

 

12-3+5 = 14

 

it's the OM value and the <57mm right?

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 Peter M. Skaar

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 02:05 PM

Hi Acctingman69!  Let me go ahead and take a stab at this and see if I can clarify a few things.  I recently posted an AAR here that was also a Tutorial, especially in the early going, to illustrate the rules.

Shooting with a Matilda II.

1. According to my Data Book, the Matilda II has an OM1 of 0 and an OM2 of -4.  I think you might be referencing the Matilda IIICS which does have a OM2 of -8.
2. Troop Quality - British Regulars and Veterans are 11, while Elite are 12.  You wanted to illustrate with elite so no worries there.

3. I assume you are using the Advanced Rules with the AP Modifiers on the to Kill Table.

To Hit:

British Elite = 12 
          OM2 = -4
Range 36" =  -5
Need to hit =   3

The chances of hitting the target at this range is only 15% assuming the German tank is not moving or in some sort of cover.  If the Matilda did not move, it has an OM1 of 0 so the hit number is now 7 or less.  That is actually just over a 1/3 chance to hit at this range with an elite crew.

Most WWII tank engagements occurred at 1200 meters or less and I have heard where 600 meters or less was very common.  I think the Mein Panzer Range tables reflect this very well.  Anything over 24" or 1200 meters has negative modifiers to hit.  Tanks with better guns (and optics) have a better chance of hitting but things get much better at 24" or less.

The Matilda is slow, the main gun is the same 2 Lbr. that armed most British tanks in 1939- mid 1942 but has great armor at 11 frontal compared with the Panzer IVF1 and earlier that have only 5 Frontal Armor and a main gun that has an AP of 5 and an OM1 of -1 and an OM2 of -5.  These earlier Panzer IVs were the more likely opponents to the Matilda than the Panzer IVF2 and G that arrived in North Africa in the latter part of 1942.  The later German Panzer IVs were uparmored and upgunned and had a better chance against the Matilda as you have illustrated.

The AP Modifiers including <57mm are found on the To Kill Table and don't have any bearing on hitting the target.  It is only used in the To Kill calculations once the round actually hits the target so that is not factored in until then.

The 2 Lbr on the Matilda II has an AP of 6.  German tanks up till mid 42 or so facing the Matilda II in North Africa would have a Frontal Armor of 3 to 5 for the Panzer IIs and early IVs while the Panzer IIIH has a Frontal of 7 in Mein Panzer and the others are rated at 5 or 6.

In this game, the 2 lbr isn't a horrible gun, as long as you are engaging other enemy vehicles for the same time frame such as the M13/40, Panzer II, Panzer III, and earlier Panzer IVs.  I have run games with Crusader IIs vs. Panzer IIIG/H/J and they are reasonably evenly matched as far as hardware goes.  Of course the troop quality is a factor.  Typically, I give my British Regular status at 11TQ and the Germans have Veteran status at 12TQ with the bonus shots available.  Feel free to experiment with any Troop Quality you like of course.

I hope this clears up a few things.  If you have more questions, feel free to ask them here.  The other guys such as Kenny and Bob do respond here as well so maybe they will have additional insights.


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#3 acctingman69

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 02:33 PM

Thanks Pete

 

I've read your tutorial multiple times. Thank you again for putting that there. It has helped immensely! 

 

I think I get it now. Distance is what it is. No matter the gun, range is what it is. It's the OM factor where the details lies for me. It makes sense now.


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#4 Peter M. Skaar

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 05:49 PM

No problem, Acctingman69!  I remember my first few games and trying to keep everything straight.  I know I got a few things wrong along the way and even more recently Kenny pointed out a rule detail that I was not doing correctly.  I am happy to help if I can.



#5 Kenny Noe

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Posted 03 December 2022 - 02:14 PM

Thanks Peter!!


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#6 Kenny Noe

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Posted 03 December 2022 - 02:44 PM

The Matilda CS version is a Close Support 3-inch Howitzer with a L/25 barrel (very short)

The PzIVH has a 75mm L/48 tank gun.

 

These two weapon platforms have night an day applications in warfare.  One is for infantry support (MG Nest / Bunker busting) and the other is for anti-vehicle (as well as a little Infantry support).  Only in extreme emergency would they duel one another.  This is because the British crew would know it's out classed.

 

As Peter explained above the Matilda II with the 2pdr would be a better match.

 

Also any To-Hit value under 0 is a "no shot".  (Can't roll a negative number  <grin>)

 

 

The OM factor is figured from several qualities of a weapon system.  Essentially, what makes the gun and fire control do it's job.  Each weapon system quality is inputted into an algorithm to produce the OM1, OM2 and OM3 stats.  Qualities include stabilization, sights, traverse mechanism, barrel length, rate of fire and others.

 

Honestly, sources for these weapon systems can vary greatly even for WWI systems.  We are all human and not perfect.  So opinions vary and everyone has a belly button on the performance of any given  system.  One of the outstanding qualities of ODGW is that we are open to and encourage those opinions.  If you feel strongly that a weapon system is out of line present your sources and we can review them.  If we agree then we can update the values.  Also if  there is a weapon system not listed in a databook, send us the references to that and we can add it. 

 

Lastly, if you believe the values to be wrong or a rule is not as precise as you think it should be, write your own rule.  House rules are encouraged and hopefully shared with the community here for discussion and others might use it as well.

 

Hope this helps


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#7 acctingman69

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Posted 03 December 2022 - 07:07 PM

Thank you Kenny!


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