56 replies to this topic

[healey36]

In the modern era for Mein Panzer, is there still the requirement to keep vehicles within a couple inches of a peer in order to maintain unit cohesion? I only ask because (1) I see your Amis spread apart a bit, and (2) I dislike the visual of tanks all bunched together hull-to-hull (which is, of course, highly unrealistic). I'm wondering if vehicle communications are such that the requirement is loosened, i.e. intervening distance increased beyond two inches, or discarded altogether.

[Kenny Noe]

Paul,

 

Mein Panzer has a rule for vehicles in a unit command distance.  This is to simulate unit cohesion and control.  Utilizing the Command and Morale chapters command distance really shines in MP giving the gamer flavors of troop combat effectiveness on the active battlefield.  So it's not the communication equipment itself (although the quality, amount, and portability have greatly improved over the decades) that allows for better vehicle separation.  Troop Quality is the starting point for all actions in MP.  How well trained are your troops?  The better trained (in communications, weapon systems, etc) the more effective they are.

 

Command Distance is based on Troop Quality.  The standard distance between vehicles with Regular TQ is 2".  This equates to ~100m.  So a platoon of 5 M1A1 tanks could have a 10" spread covering ~1000m of front.  Green TQ troops should have a smaller command distance while Veteran TQ troops may have greater command distance.  So, what happens when a vehicle falls behind or races ahead out of command distance?  They loose their "Bonus Move" action.  This can be regained once the vehicle re-joins the unit.  There are additional pro / cons in the Command and Morale chapters should the gamer choose to apply.

 

While vehicles in a unit are constrained under Command Distance, separate units are not.   Meaning if you have three units in your players TOE, (1 platoon of M1, one platoon of M60A3, and one platoon of M901 ITV) then each platoon can drive in opposite directions with no consequences to Command Distance. 

 

I hope I have clarified (and recalled correctly) the rule for command distance.   I highly recommend DL the latest 2.1.b version of the rules as Bob has added a lot of "play example" sections to clarify a variety of MP actions.

[healey36]

Thanks, Kenny; I recall us talking about this at the Friday session at Fall In!. It makes sense, especially when reminded that the scale for distance is a bit tighter than the actual scale of the vehicles/stands. Throughout my numerous reads of the MP ruleset, I didn't recall ever seeing the penalty for being outside command distance (loss of the bonus move capability). I'll have to read up on the further considerations outlined in the advanced rules (after downloading and printing the revised set).

 

Thanks again for the explanation. Sometimes it just doesn't sink in until someone talks about it.

 

Paul

[W. Clark]

Line doggies bunching up?? When I was in cav units we practiced endlessly keeping a set distance (25 to 50 yards) between vehicles as we maneuvered in line, wedge, echelon or column. Otherwise, being social animals, the herd instinct would insert itself and we'd bunch up like commuters going to work. that never seemed to be a problem in battalion scout platoons as the mission often had us separated by as much a kilometer (in the extreme) while stretched out in a screen or recon. Of course, that also resulted in there being no close order supervision and taught us to be independent.

 

WMC

[W. Clark]

On the other hand, there is no prettier sight than a tank battalion queued up to refuel when your battalion CO is looking for a target for a Lance missile strike. Did that to 70th Armor during a Reforger.

 

WMC

[Kenny Noe]

On the other hand, there is no prettier sight than a tank battalion queued up to refuel when your battalion CO is looking for a target for a Lance missile strike. Did that to 70th Armor during a Reforger.

 

WMC

...or on the tabletop and fly in for a strafe mission!!    The Egyptians had a MiG-15 do this on the last turn of the game and destroyed three M50 Shermans the Israelis had lined up.   <grin>

[Begemot_]

Healy - I favor spreading out my vehicles because: like you, I don't like the visual of hub-to-hub fighting vehicles and spreading out is what should be done, as Clark noted above, so let's do what is actually practiced. The rule set being used should, if things like artillery and air are being used, naturally encourage dispersion to reduce losses, which is why it is done in the real world. Mein Panzer artillery effects, including on vehicles. is just the thing to encourage your troops to spread out.

[Kenny Noe]

Paul,

 

FYI...  There are 72 references to Command Distance in the rules.  However the specific reference to lose of Command Distance can be found in the Command Drop-In Chapter 13 Page 13.2 Section Out of Command Effects.

 

There is a lot that can be done with the various Command Rules but for convention games (as a GM) I typically only enforce the loss of bonus move.

 

Hope this helps.

[healey36]

Mein Panzer artillery effects, including on vehicles. is just the thing to encourage your troops to spread out.

'tis true, as I found out this past Friday...who knew the top-side armor on a JS3 is thin as paper. 

[healey36]

There are 72 references to Command Distance in the rules.

LOL...how did I miss it? Thanks for the reference, Ken; I'll check it out.

[healey36]

...or on the tabletop and fly in for a strafe mission!!    The Egyptians had a MiG-15 do this on the last turn of the game and destroyed three M50 Shermans the Israelis had lined up.   <grin>

That was fun! Some exceptional die-rolling as I recall.

[W. Clark]

You button up under arty but to avoid shrapnel, not because you think it will stop a direct hit. Armor has to be thin somewhere or the tank is too heavy. Given the threats to front, flank, rear and bottom (mines); the top gets my vote. Some people think that bigger (thus heavier) is always the answer. But a tank that weighs too much causes mechanical unreliability (power train and suspension), cannot cross bridges and takes up too much cargo space. Hitler thought the snorkel was the answer. How he thought that would get his super tanks to New York is the measure of his madness.

 

WMC

 

WMC

[Begemot_]

Scenario 3 - Skinning the Cat

 

Prologue

 

 

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld shook his head and growled with irritation. He had just finished the report of the action detailed in the "Collision" (see Scenario 2 above) report and was most annoyed at what he had read. "My God!" thought Rumsfeld, "This was a disaster! What if Cronkite gets hold of this and puts it out on CBS News? Could this turn into another 'Vietnam is Lost' moment? This war is just getting started and we can't let something like this 'Collision' debacle run this war off the rails."

 

After a few moments of contemplation Rumsfeld nodded his head and set his jaw. "We need a Do-Over on this." With the decision made, Rumsfeld pulled the bottom drawer of his desk open and pulled out The Very Red Phone. He picked up the receiver and heard the click as the phone was picked up on the receiving end.

 

 

The familiar voice spoke. "Morden speaking. What do you want?"

 

"This is Rumsfeld and ..."

 

"I know who this is. What do you want?"

 

"We need a Do-Over. We had an incident in the current project that could be very damaging if it gets out. It could raise questions of competence in the public mind. We need to erase this event and do it again with a better plan of action." There was a long silence.

 

"It's not easy" said Morden. "Bending space and time like that. You're asking for a lot. This requires  personal handling by the Boss."

 

"I appreciate the difficulty", said Rumsfeld, "but think of all those souls the Corporation loses if this project ends early? Can you afford that?" Another long silence.

 

"Let me check with His Darkness. Please hold." Lawrence Welk muzak began to play while Rumsfeld drummed his desk. Five minutes passed and Morden resumed the call.

 

"Okay, you've got the Do-Over. But make your new effort worth our time. It will cost you. We'll have your soul for this."

 

"Yes, of course", said Rumsfeld with relief. "This time things will be different. You won't regret this. How will I know when the Do-Over has been completed? How will I know when it's been done?"

 

"When you throw up in your waste basket. The vertigo of the space-time warping is severe." The connection broke as Morden hung up.

 

"They already have my soul", thought Rumsfeld. "What morons. Things will be different when I get down there. There will be a new boss." As Rumsfeld closed the lower desk drawer with the Very Red Phone he felt an overpowering sense of dizziness and a wave of nausea hit him.

 

A moment later he reached for his intercom. "Get General Blanchard on the line immediately! I've got new orders!" barked Rumsfeld. 

 

 

Introduction

 

As the old saying goes about there being more than one way to skin a cat, so tactics allow for a variety of choices in how to accomplish a given mission. These choices may be more or less appropriate, more or less expensive, more or less successful. This scenario is a replay of the basic situation presented in "The Collision" with the US side being given an opportunity to use a more sophisticated approach in meeting advancing Soviet forces and to have a chance of acquitting themselves better.

 

 

U.S. Forces

Mission: Engage advancing Soviet forces to delay or halt their advance south through the Jossa valley.

 

Forces Available:

 

• 1 x M60A1 platoon (5 tanks) 
• 1 x 155 mm artillery battery on call

 

Soviet Forces

Mission: Operating as part of the advance guard move south through Jossa to engage US forces and carry out the regiment's mission to cut off and destroy US forces withdrawing west. 

 

Forces Available:

 

     Combat Reconnaissance Patrol:

• 3 x T62 tanks (1 platoon)
• 2 x BRDM 2 (representing engineer and chemical warfare recon teams)

 

     Forward Security Element:

• 7 x T62 tanks (2 platoons and company commander tank)
• 3 x BMP 1 (1 Motor Rifle platoon)
• 1 x BRDM 2 (artillery forward observer)
• 1 x 122mm artillery battery on call

 

 

Scenario Conditions

 

The US side is allowed to place their force anywhere on the western half of the table before the arrival of any Soviet forces.

 

The Soviets will be organized into two groups: a Combat Reconnaissance Patrol (CRP) which will enter the table on Turn 1; and a Forward Security Element (FSE) which will enter the table on Turn 5. Both forces will be required to remain road bound on the paved highway and proceed at best speed until they make contact with the US force, at which time they are released from all restrictions. Should the US player engage the CRP before the FSE has entered the table, the Soviet FSE may enter anywhere on the Soviet side of the table. Once the FSE has been engaged then the game continues for another 7 turns. The turn limit is based on the presumed entry of the Soviet Advanced Guard (a battalion plus sized force) after the seventh turn.

 

If the Soviets are not engaged the Soviets win.

 

Arrival Schedule for Soviets:

• Turn 1 - Combat Recon Patrol
• Turn 5 - Forward Security Element

Game ends when Soviet Forward Security Element exits western edge of table OR 7 turns after FSE has been engaged.

 

 

Deployment

The areas of trees are not passable to the tanks of either side so the US tank platoon cannot take position in the woods. The US player decides to take up an ambush position on the north ridge as indicated by the blue marking open circle on the image below. The blue cross is the pre-registered artillery fire point. The red arrow indicates the entry direction for the Soviets, along the highway through the village.

 

 

The ridge will allow the US tanks to remain concealed either by hugging the edge of the tree line and camouflaging with brush and tree limbs or hiding below the ridgeline on the reverse slope, then moving up to hull defilade positions to engage the Soviets in the valley below.

 

 

The two tanks alongside the trees have views into the valley. The rightmost tank is tasked with covering this approach should Soviet forces come down along the north ridge.

 

The US plan is to ignore the Combat Reconnaissance Patrol and let it exit the table. The tank in the upper center (the platoon leader) will initiate the ambush when the Soviet Forward Security Element emerges from the village. The two tanks in defilade in the center will move up to hull down positions and engage. The artillery will fire on the target reference point to split the Soviet column and isolate the leading vehicles from the rest of the Soviet force. Kill as many Soviets as possible and leave before the Soviet Advanced Guard arrives.

 

 

The Game

 

Turn 1 and the Soviet Combat Reconnaissance Patrol enters.

 

 

The US player watches the CRP cross and exit the table. Someone further down the road will deal with them.

 

 

Game turn 5 and the US target, the Forward Security Element, arrives.

 

 

The US watches the FSE emerge from Jossa.

 

 

The US platoon leader decides the Soviets have moved down the road far enough and engages the lead Soviet T62, thereby initiating the ambush.

 

 

The lead tank, hit in the left side bursts into flames. The ambush sprung, the US M60s move up the to their hull defilade positions and engage.

 

 

 

(Continued ...)

 

[Begemot_]

Scenario 3 - Skinning the Cat (continued)

 

Three more T62s are quickly destroyed before the Soviets can react.

 

 

Then the US artillery falls adding to the Soviet's plight. The sole undamaged Soviet tank in the lead group routs (visible at lower left of village). The remaining Soviets pull back to get buildings between themselves and the US fires.

 

 

To further complicate the Soviet situation, both Soviet tank platoon leaders have been killed as well as the FSE commander. Only the BMP platoon leader is left to attempt to lead the FSE.

 

The US adjusts its artillery fires closer to the village. The US tanks watch for targets to present themselves. The US platoon leader knows that the Soviet Advanced Guard is barreling down the road towards him and so will not risk getting caught in the open without a covered escape route. 

 

The BMP platoon leader successfully gains command of the FSE. The Soviet artillery Forward Observer maneuvers to a position to view the area from which the ambush was sprung.

 

 

The US artillery is adjusted into Jossa itself. The Soviet artillery arrives, barraging the area in front of the US position. It is intended to suppress the ambushing Americans and to mask the surviving Soviets.

 

 

The Soviet BMP platoon leader, filled with the spirit of aktivnost*, decides to use the masking effect of the Soviet artillery and orders the BMP platoon to maneuver to the tree line on the north ridge.

 

 

As the Soviet barrage continues, the BMPs begin to move along the tree line. If they can get close enough the infantry may be able to close with the US tanks and drive them off. The surviving T62s take up over watch positions covering the location of the ambushing enemy.

 

 

The US platoon leader, having been watching the clock and sensing through his fingerspitzengefühl** that the Soviets are closing up to him, decides that now is the time to leave. The platoon begins a controlled withdrawl. The US artillery is lifted. There are other urgent requests for their services.

 

 

The Soviet artillery lifts and the BMPs dismount their infantry but their quarry has gone.

 

 

The infantry secure the area just as the Advanced Guard begins to enter the board. The US has gotten safely away to their next position.

 

 

Results

 

U.S.: No losses.

 

Soviets: 4 tanks killed. 1 tank routed off the table. Forward Security Element delayed.

 

Assessed: US victory.

 

 

Epilogue

 

The Pentagon - later that evening. Secretary Rumsfeld reviews the report on the day's action at Jossa.

 

"Better. Much better." thinks Rumsfeld. "Cronkite won't have anything to use against us; the Commies got a bloody nose; and, I look good. I think the platoon leader at Jossa has earned himself a medal. Life is good." Rumsfeld smiles.

 

 

 

Comments

 

As noted in the introduction, this was a redo to show a different tactical approach to dealing with the initial stages of a meeting engagement scenario. 

 

The M60 is a tall tank which makes it a bit easier to see, but a compensating benefit is it can depress its main gun to a greater degree than a Soviet T62 ( −10° for the M60 versus −6° for the T62). This fact points to high ground defilade positions giving the Americans a tactical advantage. Hence the ridge line ambush position selected by the US in this scenario.

 

Was this a fun or balanced scenario? Fun for the ambushers, of course. Balanced? No. But then in real war you look for every advantage to make the situation as unbalanced in your favor as you can. An ambush is designed to be as unfair a situation as you manage.

 

 

Glossary

 

* Aktivnost: the Soviet military principle of energetic, forceful and active pursuit of military goals.

 

** Fingerspitzengefühl: a German word which literally means "finger tip feeling" and means possessing an intuitive flair or instinct for the dynamics and nuances of a situation.

 

[Kenny Noe]

Nice AAR.   Thanks for sharing and the lessons on warfare.

[Peter M. Skaar]

That is a great and detailed AAR, Begemot.  The terrain and minis are also very nice to look at as well.

[Begemot_]

Kenny and Pete - Thanks for the comments. I'm pleased you found the AAR of interest.

[W. Clark]

Before there was the "Donald", there was the "Donald" and a pretty "Rum" go if you ask me. I liked the AAR. It shows what a properly trained tank platoon can do to an opposing tank company.

 

WMC

[healey36]

A great ongoing-series AAR, with increasing levels of replayabiliiy I would think. The terrain is of great interest to me...I never would have thought to base trees individually for 1/285, but it certainly seems to work and looks great. My compliments on the table.

 

I always thought Rumsfeld (Rev-1) was a considerable upgrade over McNamara and those that came in between. I realize that McNamara and his immediate successor(s) had their hands tied politically somewhat, but there were too many seemingly unforgiveable transgressions along the way. Just my two cents, without intent to hijack the thread.

 

Carry on. I presume an entire Soviet Tank Regiment hits the table eventually.  

[Begemot_]

I chose the "Call to the Nether Regions" as a literary device to "justify" the rerun of Scenario 2. I figured the Secretary of Defense was a high enough official to make such a call. Since the time for these scenarios is the summer of 1976 the guy who was the sitting SecDef was Rumsfeld. So he got to make the call. It wasn't intended as a personal dig at the man. If Captain Kangaroo had been in that position at that time it would have been him.

 

Don't get your hopes up on seeing a Soviet tank regiment. I'm pushing the limits of my painted inventory of Soviet equipment in these scenarios. Painting projects for the coming year will be to build up these forces.