5 replies to this topic

[charlesS]

Say a ship launched torpedoes and an opposing ship ended movement in the gyro angle, but in the 2nd range band for that turn (so there would be no roll for torpedo hit). This ship is heading directly for the torpedo launch point. 
In the next turn, the opposing ship moves from the 2nd range band to the 1st range band, still within the gyro angle. Per rules as written, would there be no roll for torpedo hit?

Turn 1:
Tac Plot Phase: Type 93 Launched, range band for this turn is 500-4800 yds
Move Phase: Enemy ship ends turn within gyro angle, but at a range of 6000 yds from the launch point. This ship is heading directly for the launch point.
Torp Atk Phase: No ship within range band (500-4800 yds), no rolls.
Turn 2:

Move phase: Enemy ship moves from 6000 yds to 3000 yds, all while remaining within the gryo angle.
Torp Atk Phase: Enemy ship is not within the correct range band still, as it is now 4900-9600 yds. Thus, there is no roll, even though the enemy ship would have sailed right past the torpedoes!
 

[jwsleser]

Good day Charles

 

Interesting question. If I understand you correctly, the Japanese ship launched its torpedoes at the target ship. The target ship turned to comb the wakes by turning directly towards the Japanese ship. We would resolve the torpedo attack in the second range band with the Down 1 for the Bow angle plus Evade (if any). The torpedoes didn't reach the target ship in the first torpedo movement turn so both the target ship and torpedoes would be in the second range band at the same time as the target ship closed the range. Even though torpedoes attacks are resolved after movement, the fact the target ship remained in the same Gyro Angle during its second move means the torpedoes had an opportunity to hit as they passed the ship. 

 

That is my humble opinion. 

 

v/r. Jeff

[Jim O'Neil]

I concur with jwsleser, the Torpedoes and ship crossed paths, so you roll for hits.

[Dave Franklin]

charlesS,

In the situation you described, by the RAW, you are correct there would be no roll to hit.  It is just one of those idiosyncrasies of dividing up real fluid time by the game turn sequence, that can happen once in awhile.  If you want to play it that you do roll for torpedo hits in this situation, you can certainly do that.  Just be aware you are playing a "house rule", and I would brief so to players before the game - particularly if you're playing with new players experienced with the rules.

 

Dave

[Jim O'Neil]

I don't doubt Dave is correct; but i always play the rules as firm guidelines, not absolute rules, as the rules just cannot cover every possible situation that can occur. 

House Rule or No, The ship and torpedoes crossed through the same area simultaneously, so there is a chance of a hit. Play it as you all see fit.

[jwsleser]

Just to follow up on this issue. We fought our first night battle this past Thursday (AAR will be posted later today, currently being check by my opponent). If we would have followed the rules literally as suggested above, the Allies would not have rolled for two of the Japanese torpedo attacks because the Allies combed the wakes. This was happenstance the first time and deliberate on the second. Combing the wakes was a well understood tactic from WW1. 

 

Bottomline is that this aspect of the rules is broken and needs to be fixed. As we had previously discussed this situation, we had already agreed that the attack would be resolved using the range band in which both the torpedoes and target occupied during the same turn. 

 

Our rule change:

Add after Range Bands in 1.4.6 Resolving Attacks  (p.1-6): Coming the Wakes. "There can be a situation where the target ship remains in the fired Torpedoes' Gyro Angle(s) but moves directly towards the torpedo launch point ('combing the wakes') such that the target ship and torpedoes pass each other but end the Movement Phase in different torpedo range bands. As the target ship was in the correct torpedo gyro angle when the torpedoes passed the ship, the Torpedo Attack is resolved using the Torpedo Range Band in the turn in which both the torpedoes and target pass each other. Example: A Japanese ship fires its Type 93 torpedoes on Gyro Angle R2 at an American ship. The American ship turns towards the torpedo launch point and ends its turn within R2 at a range of 6000m from the launch point. The Type 93 has a range of 4800m in its first move so doesn't reach the American ship. In the next turn the American ship remains in the R2 Gyro Angle and ends its move 3000m from the torpedo launch point. The Type 93 has a range band of 4901m-9600m in its second move so the target and the torpedoes are technically in different range bands at the end of the second turn. The target ship and the Type 93 passed each other in the second range band during the second turn, the torpedo attack is resolved at that range band."

 

v/r  Jeff