9 replies to this topic

[Joe Moore]

Say, for example, you hit the torpedo tube box for a class of destroyer, knocking it out for the remainder of the scenario on that ship. What happens if you hit the same location again? Do you re-roll to score other damage, or do you simply mark it as hull damage?

[Cpt M]

The short answer is nothing. The way we played in the playtest group is that additional hits on an already wrecked system (torpedo tube, turret, gun mount or float plane) causes no additional damage. Mike

[Joe Moore]

I see your point, but that negates the previous damage and the potential for more. A 5" shell going off on the fantail where the depth charges used to be until they went up is still going to do some extensive damage. Hits come rarely enough, perhaps if the location was previously hit, it ought to do a half hull box damage to the ship instead. That's an off-hand suggestion and one not playtested as yet. I just don't see that once the other damage is done that further hits should do no damage whatsoever.-Joe

[Cpt M]

Keep in mind that hits on systems (turrets, torpedo tubes, DC racks, etc) are intended to affect only those systems while hull hits are a reduction in the structual integrity of the ship and its ability to remain afloat. If we were to extend your logic, then hits on any these systems should also incur hull hits, regardless of whether the system is functional or not. This would seriously skews the damage model, resulting in ships sinking at much higher rates than realistic. It would also present the notion that all hits impact hull integrity, which is historically unrealistic. Under the game's damage model, when a system that is hit is rendered inoperative for combat purposes; its structure would still physically present. Consequently, any additional hits represent "bouncing the rumble"; a hit, but in this case, of no consequence. An example of this would be Bismarck's last fight. Towards the end of the battle, multiple hits were observed (by the British and by Bismarck's crew) on her main turrets; turrets that had already been wreaked earlier in the fight. Those hits, however, were also observed to have no impact on the Bismarck's overall hull integrity.Mike

[gregoryk]

Another thing which is important to consider is a hit that knocks out a system could be anything — superficial but disabling damage up to total destruction. The depth charge, torpedo launchers, and turrets do not disappear; in fact, they may have been only slightly damaged, but neutralized until repair work can be made. Furthermore, the system is knocked out, but the next shell may not be able to penetrate the armor belt to inflict additional damage.I agree with the method used in GQ, but, remember, it is your game. If you want to use a different method, trim your sails and fair winds!Gregory

[Dave Franklin]

According to 1.7.3 Recording Damage, you would "Blacken in a box when a second hit destroys it..."Which to me means:1. For the purposes of a single tactical battle, it only matters for stuff you can repair (i.e. the second hit making it unrepairable for the battle). Looking at what you can repair, Sensors and Rudder seem straight forward enough. See 1.9.3 Second Hit - which along with 1.9.2 Fires and Flooding, explains how they are different. Engineering is not further clarified that I have seen, so I interpret that for Engineering the third hit (also assuming no repair/crew cannot repair rolls and not playing UE) would make the first Engineering hit "permanent", and the fourth would make the second permanent - dead in the water for the game. Don't know if that's the author's interpretation or not.2. For the purposes of a campaign, your would think a disabled vs. a destroyed box might make a difference on the Repair table, but 4.8.2 Damage Repair nor the Repair Table mention it. I might be inclined to count a destroyed box as two on the Repair Table.

[Cpt M]

This is the well we played this in the primary playtest group: Engineering hits are handled in the same manner as Rudder and Sensor hits. That means a second hit destroys your engines. The effect of the first is to knock a ship to half speed. A second hit (when the first hit is still unrepaired) results in the ship going dead in water and the loss of all power operated weapons. As you can see, repairing that first hit is critical. Mike

[Joe Moore]

All good information and great food for thought! In fact, I tend to believe, and the discussion so far has been convincing, that the repetition of hits on knocked out systems don't really cause anything further to happen. We played it just this way in the scenarios I've participated in (4 total) since the delivery of GQIII. Hits causing no new damage are frustrating, but perhaps very historically realistic. Overmatch hits are well reflected by the multiple hits they cause, so this will not skew the model.-Joe

[Lonnie Gill]

Co_diver,1) Yes, your interpertation is on target. I should have mentioned Engineering Hits in Section 1.9.3 as well. See also my 22 Nov 2006 response to Paul H in the General Q&A area.2) That's a good suggestion for reflecting campaign damage repair that better reflects the effect of a second hit that destroys the location. Wish I'd thought of it. Well Done!