10 replies to this topic

[Michael Gustavsson]

Maybe I´m a little bit slow here! I just can´t figure out how torpedo combat works. Should I make complex calculations to aim torpedo spreads as in e.g Command at Sea? The rules state that I should note the LoF on a post-it, but how do I figure out the intercepting point between torpedo and target?

[Jim O'Neil]

You don't have to!! It's a probabilistic chart that asumes your torpedo officer knows his stuff. You shoot your mount(s) and in the appropriate phase you roll to see if and how many hits you may have gotten.NOTE: that Japanese torpedoes may take two phases to get to their target if you shoot at long, long range.

[Michael Gustavsson]

The rules state (1.4.6) "...places a tape measure along both edges of the "post-it" or ½" wide piece of tape for the indicated torpedo mount to determine the LoF and width of the torpedo spread. Extend the tape to determine if a target, of either side has ended her Game Turn movement within the spread". This is the part I don´t understand. And as torpedo attacks are executed over several Game Turns it makes it even harder to predict where to aim the spread...Michael

[gregoryk]

Torpedo rules are the bane of any rules writer's existence. It seems that few can agree on a correct method. Some games abstract to a simple modified die roll, so that it acts like a gun with modifiers dependent on the target's maneuver and speed. At the opposite end of the spectrum, one rules set actually has you solve the mathematical equation for firing, and then move the torpedo through the water. Both systems have problems.A new system is in the works which may be backwards-implemented to the WWII rules. It is simpler, and has the advantage of being able to track direction of the torpedo so that it may obtain other hits. Stay tuned, as it seems so far to be working well.Cheers,Gregory

[Thomas Ruta]

Hello Michael,Here is my understanding of how torpedo combat works.1. During the Tactical Plot Phase, you place a piece of tape on the table. On this piece of tape, you mark the launch point and an arrow that indicates the direction the torpedoes are going. Note that the launch point should be under the "forward funnel" of the launching ship. Note also that the direction of launch must be within the launching ship's 'broadside'. We also mark the number of torps launched. Mask this piece of tape with another post-in so that your opponent can not see the direction the torps are aimed.2. Execute the movement phase.3. Resolve torpedo combat during the Torpedo Attack Phase as follows: a. Measure from the launch point in the direction indicated by the arrow on the tape previously set in step 1 above. It is important to measure accurately along the direction the torps are heading. It is also important to center the measuring tape on the launch point. We use a tape measure that is 1/2" wide to define the width of the torp spread. b. If the measuring tape intersects any ship (enemy or firendly), and the target is within the range of the torpedos, roll on the Torpedo CRT to determine how many torps actually hit, if any.Japanese LL Torps are special in that they move on the table for two turns. We have a house rule that allows the Japanese player(s) the option to a) resolve the torps on the first turn, or to b) leave the masking post-in in place and not resolve the attack until the second turn. If the first option is chosen, the torps have a max range of 9500 yards on the first turn, and the masking post-it is removed. The torps are still resolved on the second turn, but only between 9501 and 19000 yards from the launch point. Obviously, the allied player knows the direction the torps are aimed on the second turn. If the second option is chosen, the masking post-it is NOT removed, and NO ship is effected on the first turn. On the second turn, the torps must be resolved, but only between 9501 and 19000 yards. This option allows more secrecy as to where the torps are aimed, but discards the possibility of a first-turn hit.Hope this helps.Regards,Tom.

[Michael Gustavsson]

I do understand the problems about torpedo firing, but still, my question remain, how do players out there perform torpedo attacks? I know how to figure out TMA solutions, but that´s not the point according to the rules... Michael

[Cpt M]

The description of the game mechanics pretty much covers the essentials. Beyond that, what is the specific issue at hand?

[Cpt M]

(Note to self: PROOF READ!!!) Anyway, what I meant to say: Tom's description of the game mechanics pretty much covers the essentials. Beyond that, what is the specific issue at hand?

[Thomas Ruta]

Hello Michael,I went back to your original post and I believe your main question is: "how do I figure out the intercepting point between torpedo and target?" If I read this correctly, I now understand that you are asking about tactics, not mechanics. How do you predict where the target will end up after movement, and how do you plot/aim your torpedoes accordingly in the Tactical Plot Phase? The short answer is that it's impossible. You will never be able to predict with 100% accuracy where your opponent will end his movement. You can guess, and you can launch several mounts in several different directions, but this will only increase your odds of a hit, not guarantee it. Like any other skill, employing torpedoes effectively takes practice and experience.A time-honored tactic you can try is called the "Hammer and Anvil". Basically, one ships launches from directly ahead of the target, aiming at its bow or slightly to one side. A second ship launches from abeam, aiming ahead of the target. If the target turns or steams straight, one spread or the other should intercept. Regards,Tom.

[Michael Gustavsson]

Thank you Tom! That helped me alot. I missed your first post here, I mostly check out this site late at night (Swedish time) so I was tired, but your last post really gave me an answer to my question. Thanks for taking time.CheersMichael!

[Lonnie Gill]

I've been away working every available moment on a special project that, among other things, is testing out an alternate torpedo approach that Greg mentioned. If it continues to be successful, you'll hear more about that in due time. But, in reading the comments on this question, I thought a brief clarification might be in order. Tom provided a pretty decent description of the process, but let me clarify a few things a bit further. The piece of tape, or "post-it" placed to mark the launch point ALSO indicates the LoF for the spread. Thus, it is not necessary to draw an arrow on the tape or for the referee to struggle to make sense out of an arrow that often is not drawn quite straight in the heat and stress of play. The tape or "post-it" should be ½" wide so it indicates the LoF and the width of the spread in the basic rules. Thus, all the referee has to do is position a ½" wide tape measure on the launch tape and extend it out to determine if the torpedo spread intercepts a target in the range band for the current Game Turn. If the tape measure is wider, simply place it along the left side edge of the tape and/or the right side edge to make a determination. Thus, the tape or "post-it" simultaneously marks the launch point for range determination, LoF for the attack, and torpedo spread width for interception determination.The only thing you need to write on the launch point tape or "post-it" is the number of the Game Turn launched to help keep track of the number of Game Turns the torpedoes have been running when determining the range band for the current Game Turn. Also, the attacking captain should note on his Deck Log (beneath the Ship Logs) if he is employing "deep" settings for battleships. No mark is needed for the standard setting as it is the default.The range bands a torpedo spread traverses in each Game Turn are indicated on the range scales on the sides of the attacker's TORPEDO CRT. Thus, a torpedo moving 40 kts would move 0 - 4,000 yds in the Launch Game Turn, 4,100 - 8,000 yds in the second Game Turn, etc. Like ship movement, torpedoes move 1oo yds/Kt in a three minute Game Turn.Several have also written in to note that since 1:2400 miniatures are larger than 1:6000s, the interception measure for a 1:2400 should not be the total hull length. Requiring the torpedo spread LoF pass within one inch of the forward funnel for a 1:2400 target rather than the total hull would provide the same interception probability as the total hull of a 1:6000 miniature.Deciding where to aim in a given tactical situation; well, that's an art!LONNIE