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Rule 1.5.10 Initial Salvos


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#1 Dave Franklin

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 11:18 PM

I was just carefully re-reading the night combat rules, and some of the optional rules, and something struck me. Optional rule 1.5.10 Initial Salvos has one halve the number of D12s rolled, rounding down, on the initial DAYTIME gunnery attack by a battery to simulate that part of the salvos in this game turn have been expended "getting on the target".OK. In the past, my thinking was it was a good rule, as it a) makes the game a little less bloody (sometimes it seems a little too bloody to me anyway, compared to history), and b) it tends to inhibit gamers from switching targets every game turn, shooting all over the place.We, in fact, used it the last game I played in a night battle - forgot it was only supposed to apply to daytime.What I just remembered, in this context, is the GQ abstraction where daytime turns are 6 minutes, and night turns are 3 minutes. It seems a little odd to halve the number of D12s when the daytime turn represents twice the time period - even given that you would be waiting for the fall of shot due to the longer ranges.So I guess I'm back to thinking the mechanic should be used in both day and night engagements.Comments?

#2 Martin Jerred

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 05:13 PM

I think it's supposed to represent long range ranging shots - single shell fired, wait, see result, adjust, repeat, etcThe assumption is that night actions are at blood thirsty close range and it's everything, NOW!The rule I think is to discourage long pot shots with minimal chance of hitting that slow the game upIf you want to use it at night go ahead but I'd allow anything at close (rapid fire) range to fie for full effect. It's only really likley to be an issue when the night action actually has a fairly good visibility range - can happen with a good moon, etcIn th eend I don't think you're wrong or right - so do whichever makes sens eto you...Zippee

#3 Lonnie Gill

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 08:29 AM

One note of clarification. As stated in several previous Forum entries, both the gunnery combat process and movement are based on a three minute Game Turn. Having a daytime Game Turn represent 6 minutes simulates that over time only about three minutes of action takes place in six minutes. That's because historically ships lose target acquisition, check fire, get in each others way, have their LoS obscured by smoke, change course, etc. temporarily during daytime actions resulting in less attacks being made. All part of the hurry up and wait aspect of all things military. These things were very real, but it would be exceedingly tedious to simulate every potential, temporary delay. Thus, the simplification that only about half as much firing takes place as could over the course of an engagement. This daylight abstraction's only functional utility is for the purposes of determining cumulative time expended in an engagement for campaign or scenario purposes when you need to consider arrival of other forces and/or other things happening elsewhere in the same time period. Those that are not comfortable with this simplification can stay with three minute Game Turns, realizing that gamers will tend to always to make maximum use of all weapons all the time. That, in effect, assumes that all those minor "frictions" in historical accounts don't happen.Now, contrast that with a typical night action. These tended to be very short and violent. Few lasted more than ten or fifteen minutes of actual firing. Ships generally fired as quickly as they could at much shorter ranges than in daylight. There was little tendency to fire ranging salvos and take the time to ensure they were on target with the flatter trajectory of short range fire. Further, in many cases, there was limited ability to spot the fall of shot on the target anyway in the dim gloom. In sum, daylight actions tend to be drawn out affairs with small breaks in the action that reduce the cumulative fire. Opening ranges tend to be long, requiring time for ranging shots to get on target with the primarily visual fire control systems of the day. Night actions were usually at close range which ships anxious to fire once they could identify a target in the gloom.

#4 simanton

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 06:25 PM

Also, naval ranging isn't/wasn't like indirect fire on land with the Comanche Board. Typical procedure pre WWI was to shoot half your barrels, correct based on your spot, then go to rapid fire full salvoes once you straddled. Later, the system of laddered salvoes got you on target quicker. But against a rapidly moving target ranging shots were too hard to spot and basically didn't work.




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