147 replies to this topic

[Peter M. Skaar]

Hi Mark and anyone else that is interested in this kind of thing.  I have taken some pictures of my German and Italian tanks side by side as well as adding a couple of British tanks for comparison as well.

I used Humbrol paints on all of these tanks so the colors that I list are that brand.  I can't say that the colors are exact matches but I do believe they are reasonable.  The truth is that I have seen other peoples vehicles for gaming as well as display models and even museums and there does seem to be some fair amount of variation.

1. Italian M-13/40.  I used Humbrol #94 Brown Yellow maybe with a touch of #34 Matte White for scale and sun bleaching.

2. Panzer IIIJ (Kurz) I used Humbrol #93 Desert Yellow and added a touch of #34 Matte White for scale and sun bleaching.  I used to use #63 which originally was advertised as Afrika Korps Sand but that color changed to a much more orange looking color a number of years ago.  This is, I think, a reasonable approximation of RAL 8000 which was the earlier and darker Afrika Korps Sand.

3. Panzer IIIJ (Lang) This is painted in a mix of 3 parts Humbrol #94 Brown Yellow, 1 part Humbrol #61 Flesh, and #34 Matte White to lighten it.  The formula was from Mike Starmer, I believe, who had a bunch of other colors matched or mixed using Humbrol colors.

4. Crusader II and Grant.  These are painted in Humbrol #103 Matte Cream with some #34 Matte White added to lighten it a bit.  The recommended color was #74 Linen if I remember right.  I thought that color a bit too yellow but there definitely is a yellow cast to the British sand color.

Here are the pictures so you can see for yourself.


This shows the M13/40 and the 2 German Panzer IIIs.


Another view from the rear showing the same 3 tanks.

 

Here is a picture showing the Crusader II and Grant with the other 3 tanks.


Here is a frontal view of the same 5 tanks.


Here is one more view showing the group with the British tanks in the foreground.

Some of the differences are subtle but they are there.

[Peter M. Skaar]

I will be running another Mein Panzer game at Imperial Outpost in Glendale, AZ on December 7th.  This time it will be a Russian Front scenario set in 1943 as that is what I have that is pretty much ready to go without having to do too much more painting.  I will be working on the basic terrain layout and victory conditions over the next 3 weeks or so.

The Germans will have a couple mixed Panzer III/IV companies and maybe some help from some Tigers, Panthers, STuG IIIs, and maybe even a couple Ferdinands.

The Russians will have a T-34 battalion, a T-70 company, and maybe some SU-152s for good measure.

I will post more here later.  Meanwhile here is a picture from my solo game of 2 years ago.

[Peter M. Skaar]

I am starting my prep for hosting a Mein Panzer game at Imperial Outpost on Saturday, December 7th.  This will be an East Front game set around August 1943 when the Russian Summer Offensive is getting into gear.

Right now, I am looking at my minis and terrain to figure out what I am going to use for this one.  I have about 6 people that say they will definitely be there or might come if able.  I took out some of my potential Russian forces for the game including a T-34 Battalion minus 1 company, a T-70 company, and an SU-152 Regiment.  The Germans will have Panzer IIIs, IVs, and maybe some StuGs, Tiger 1s, Panthers, and even Ferdinands.  I have to figure out how to get a nice balance so that the big cats don't end up dominating the whole game.

Here are a few pictures of my Russians so far.

 

[healey36]

Seems to me an SU-152 regiment would be a tough nut to crack, Peter. They alone could likely handle quite a few PzV and PzVI. I look forward to the AAR for this engagement...

[Peter M. Skaar]

Thanks very much, Paul!

I have used my SU-152s in the past.  The main gun with APHE is very powerful.  The OM1 and OM2 values are not as good as some other tanks for sure but not as bad as the Grant 75mm.  If it hits with APHE it is very powerful but hitting is sometimes the problem especially at OM2.  It will give the Germans pause as the Tiger I frontal is 12 and the Panther D is 13.  The SU-152 can definitely take on both of these tanks frontally.

I would like to get some of my Tiger Is and Panther Ds out to play this time as well as maybe some StuG IIIs and Ferdinands.  The SU-152s will be there to balance things out.

Here are a few pictures of some of the German vehicles that may be involved.

[Mark 1]

Hi Pete:

 

I appreciate the side-by-sides you put up a little bit back.  But somehow the M-13 pics are not visible to me, and that was the comparison that drove my initial interest (as Italians are the only force I have that I regularly paint up in desert colors). 

 

As to the early December 1943 post-Kursk engagement you were planning ...  would love to hear how it went. I will be particularly interested to hear how the T-70s and the SU-152s performed.

 

In my experience the T-70 can be a useful little tank if you are in a combined arms fight. While not a stirling performer, it is competent enough in supporting an infantry force in advancing against enemy infantry.  But it is pretty useless against anything from a Pz III on up.  As I know you tend to run tanks-only games, I wonder if your Soviet player(s) will find any use for them.

 

I have not rolled out my SU-152s or ISU-152s for an MP game.  In prior rule sets I was somewhat dis-satisfied with how they played, finding that mechanics that placed the whole anti-armor performance on the question of penetration could not capture the essence of the ML-20 gun.  I recall one rule set that gave the SU-152 a 50% chance of penetrating a Tiger frontally, and no chance of penetrating a Ferdinand frontally, with no damage done in the case of no penetration. Yet that same rule set gave 150mm artillery (HE) a "100% Kills" rating for any direct hits on any tanks. The impressions I have from my readings are that there was so much inertia in the APHE rounds, that even if/when they did not penetrate it made little difference, that their targets, when they did manage to get a hit, were hors de combat.

 

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

[Peter M. Skaar]

Hi Mark

M13/40.  I do have the M-13/40 posted in my sand color comparison pictures above.  Here are some other pictures of my (currently) single platoon of M-13/40s. 










This is the comparison shot of the variations in sand color.

[Peter M. Skaar]

It is time once again for another update from Pete's Minis.  I have finally finished the remaining 12 M-13/40 tanks I was working on and now have a full Company for my first unit of WWII Italians.  I will plan to add more to my Italian forces later but the Russian Front is calling for my attention in the near future.

In addition to the tanks, I created a desert display board so I can take pictures of whole units at a time in a proper setting.

Here are a few pictures.